Rechambering Model 70 Safari Express in .458 Win Mag to .458 Lott

Badboymelvin

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Honestly I am most likely going to leave it as is for now. Maybe down the road I'll have it re-chambered but for now I'm just going to leave it alone. You all have done a good job convincing me :)

Great stuff!
Now you need to work up some loads and shoot something big with it - and keep us all posted the whole time (y) (y) (y)

Cheers,

Russ
 

Badboymelvin

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I am so glad michael458 chimed in with his knowledge and expertise. (y)

For years I have been copping crap on various forums for shooting a .458 and Michael was one of the few people to stick up for me.
He also frequently corresponded with me via email and answered all my questions like a true gentleman. And I sincerely thank you for that Michael.

I still haven't tried the CEB projectiles yet!
But only because I have had a heap of Woodleighs to experiment with and shoot off.
First I wanted to see if I could get the 480gn projectiles to the gold standard of 2150fps - and I did that EASILY.
Then I wanted to see how fast I could get the 550's going, just out of curiosity and I reached 2080fps.
Now once I shoot those off I'm going to finally try the 420grn Safari Raptor. I reckon these at around 2250fps will be sheer dynamite!

Don't get me wrong, I still think that the 550gn Woodleigh's would hit HARD but the recoil is very heavy - and anyway, PaulT has told me how effective the CEB projectiles are on Water Buffalo in Oz and as I have planned a hunt next year (fingers crossed) I'd love to try them in the .458 ...

hammz I reckon you're doing the right thing keeping it as is.
If it doesn't meet your expectations you can always Lott it down the track.
My first .458 was a CZ550 with the hogsback stock and the first thing I was going to do was run a Lott reamer through it.
Then I started loading for it and found that I had no problem getting 2150fps with the 480-500gn (which was all I was after) so kept it as is.
I then used that reamer money to buy reloading components! :D

As others have said, try using the rifle as is. Like me, you may just find you have all you were ever after in the first place...

Russ
 

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Challer

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Who here, if you did not presently own a 458, would choose the WM over the Lott?
 

michael458

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You all have done a good job convincing me

To be honest, I was not trying to "Convince" you to do, not to do anything. Since invited for input, I just wanted to show you that to accomplish any mission you need to accomplish with .458 caliber, you did not have to resort to converting to a Lott to get that performance. With todays Bullet Tech and modern powders combined, there is NO Mission that 458 Winchester cannot accomplish and do a damn good job of it. It is not merely "adequate" for the mission, it will excel in the mission.

Nothing wrong with the Lott either, I had a 1/2 dozen M70s in 458 Lott and loved every one of them, used them in the field, took elephant, hippo and many buffalo with 458 Lott. Still own two 458 Lott in Winchester M70s......... But I would use the same bullets that I would use in the Winchester, if I actually took them to the field again..........That will never happen being retired and of course with 458 B&Ms on hand that are much easier to handle, and carry..........

Whether you have a 458 Winchester or 458 Lott, you still need to consider using proper bullets to accomplish the mission. Use crap bullets, you will get crap results.......Regardless of cartridge, rifle, or power of either.......THE BULLET DOES ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING................
 

michael458

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For years I have been copping crap on various forums for shooting a .458 and Michael was one of the few people to stick up for me.
He also frequently corresponded with me via email and answered all my questions like a true gentleman. And I sincerely thank you for that Michael.
Russ......very good to hear of you my friend....... Glad you are doing well, and enjoying your 458. Very kind words, but as always, no thanks needed nor required, my pleasure if I can help in any way.......
 

WAB

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You guys are missing a couple of points I tried to make earlier:
1) are you going to reload? If the answer is ‘no’, the difference is greater than you are representing,
2) are you going to shoot factory ammo with a bbl shorter than 24”? Again, a growing differential.
3) are you going to hunt remote DG areas? If so, ammo availability is going to favor the Lott. Don’t forget, it can shoot WM ammo, the reverse is not true.

I’m not saying the WM can’t get the job done, but the points above weighed heavily in my decision.
 

Wyatt Smith

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You guys are missing a couple of points I tried to make earlier:
1) are you going to reload? If the answer is ‘no’, the difference is greater than you are representing,
2) are you going to shoot factory ammo with a bbl shorter than 24”? Again, a growing differential.
3) are you going to hunt remote DG areas? If so, ammo availability is going to favor the Lott. Don’t forget, it can shoot WM ammo, the reverse is not true.

I’m not saying the WM can’t get the job done, but the points above weighed heavily in my decision.
What he said.
How many people would buy a new revolver in 38 special, (excluding snubbies) when you have the option to fire both in a 357 magnum.
 

Badboymelvin

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What he said.
How many people would buy a new revolver in 38 special, (excluding snubbies) when you have the option to fire both in a 357 magnum.

More people than you might think...
Like I said before, it comes down to personal choice.
Someone might just prefer the WM over the Lott. I do not like the Lott cartridge so I would never consider one, and I know many other people that think the same as me...

Who cares what someone prefers anyway? As long as XYZ cartridge is up to the job thats being asked of it, who cares?

Russ
 

WAB

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I disagree that it is based on personal preference. That suggests that the decision is based on subjective rather than objective factors. I made my decision objectively based on the facts as laid out above. I have no bias for or against either cartridge. However, for my application, The Lott makes more sense.

No skin off my nose if you want to make your decision subjectively. Please don’t suggest that the rest of us have no facts to back up our decisions.
 

michael458

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You guys are missing a couple of points I tried to make earlier:
1) are you going to reload? If the answer is ‘no’, the difference is greater than you are representing,
2) are you going to shoot factory ammo with a bbl shorter than 24”? Again, a growing differential.
3) are you going to hunt remote DG areas? If so, ammo availability is going to favor the Lott. Don’t forget, it can shoot WM ammo, the reverse is not true.

I’m not saying the WM can’t get the job done, but the points above weighed heavily in my decision.
All valid points, no argument at all with that. If one is not a Hand Loader, or a shooter, relies on Factory ammo, then these are valid points in which to make a choice.

With that said, I have never in my life went to the field with Factory Ammo. I do Hand Load, on occasion I reload things such as 45 ACP, but with Rifle ammo I Hand Load. I don't think I even own any Factory ammo, it just does not come up to spec for my purposes.

I have hunted extremely remote areas many many times, with over 30+ hunts in various countries in Africa, multiple hunts in Alaska, Australia, hunted Mongolia, New Zealand, and even the Arctic and most of those if not all of them, there would have been zero chance of finding ammo for whatever rifle I had at the time. Most of these hunts were taken with rifles/cartridges in which involved either wildcat cartridges, or my own creations, and there is absolutely no ammo available the vast majority of the time. Over a 20 year period and multiple trips to the field, there were only two times that I ended up without rifle or ammo. One of those times was in Zimbabwe, but within 2 days I had my rifle and ammo. The other was a trip to the Arctic for muskox and I had rifle, but no ammo. I spent three days of the 5 day hunt trying to get United Airlines to find my bag, finally giving up I went to camp, used my buddies rifle, a left hand 338 Winchester, and he had ammo that I had loaded for him, so that was some consolation, used his rifle/ammo to take the two muskox I had on schedule, both within a 100 yards of each other, end of hunt.......

So what you state can indeed happen. However, from my perspective, which is quite different of course from yours, I would almost rather not even hunt if I had to use someone else rifles and ammo, it is just not what I am there for. Since my one incident was muskox and the Arctic, my wife and I decided we were not coming back to do this again, if I wanted these muskox then shoot the damn things, and go home, done, over, out. That's what we did.

One does indeed take a chance when working with something that is not a standard cartridge or rifle that absolutely will not be available to you in other areas of the world. But for me, it was never even the slightest consideration, since my objectives were to not just hunt, but to work with equipment, bullets, ammo, that I developed.

I did always take steps however, or at least try to, EXCEPT for this ONE OCCASION with the damned muskox. Since I almost always travel with my wife, I always broke the ammo between our bags, some in her bag, some in mine......... EXCEPT for this one hunt with the Muskox. I only took 20 rounds of ammo, and did not split it between us... I mean 10 rounds in each bag? What are the chances? Heh Heh........ Well, that never happened again regardless of ammo count. You see, she got her bag, I got the rifle, but no bag, so I was almost out of clothing as well, except what I had on the carry on.

I will always take the risk, but I did try and minimize it, except for one time.........
 

WAB

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All valid points, no argument at all with that. If one is not a Hand Loader, or a shooter, relies on Factory ammo, then these are valid points in which to make a choice.

With that said, I have never in my life went to the field with Factory Ammo. I do Hand Load, on occasion I reload things such as 45 ACP, but with Rifle ammo I Hand Load. I don't think I even own any Factory ammo, it just does not come up to spec for my purposes.

I have hunted extremely remote areas many many times, with over 30+ hunts in various countries in Africa, multiple hunts in Alaska, Australia, hunted Mongolia, New Zealand, and even the Arctic and most of those if not all of them, there would have been zero chance of finding ammo for whatever rifle I had at the time. Most of these hunts were taken with rifles/cartridges in which involved either wildcat cartridges, or my own creations, and there is absolutely no ammo available the vast majority of the time. Over a 20 year period and multiple trips to the field, there were only two times that I ended up without rifle or ammo. One of those times was in Zimbabwe, but within 2 days I had my rifle and ammo. The other was a trip to the Arctic for muskox and I had rifle, but no ammo. I spent three days of the 5 day hunt trying to get United Airlines to find my bag, finally giving up I went to camp, used my buddies rifle, a left hand 338 Winchester, and he had ammo that I had loaded for him, so that was some consolation, used his rifle/ammo to take the two muskox I had on schedule, both within a 100 yards of each other, end of hunt.......

So what you state can indeed happen. However, from my perspective, which is quite different of course from yours, I would almost rather not even hunt if I had to use someone else rifles and ammo, it is just not what I am there for. Since my one incident was muskox and the Arctic, my wife and I decided we were not coming back to do this again, if I wanted these muskox then shoot the damn things, and go home, done, over, out. That's what we did.

One does indeed take a chance when working with something that is not a standard cartridge or rifle that absolutely will not be available to you in other areas of the world. But for me, it was never even the slightest consideration, since my objectives were to not just hunt, but to work with equipment, bullets, ammo, that I developed.

I did always take steps however, or at least try to, EXCEPT for this ONE OCCASION with the damned muskox. Since I almost always travel with my wife, I always broke the ammo between our bags, some in her bag, some in mine......... EXCEPT for this one hunt with the Muskox. I only took 20 rounds of ammo, and did not split it between us... I mean 10 rounds in each bag? What are the chances? Heh Heh........ Well, that never happened again regardless of ammo count. You see, she got her bag, I got the rifle, but no bag, so I was almost out of clothing as well, except what I had on the carry on.

I will always take the risk, but I did try and minimize it, except for one time.........

I also handload everything and have since 1975. The exception being the Lott, I simply don’t run enough rounds through it, perhaps 200 or m300 per year. I actually have my own range, the bench is 100 yards from my reloading room as I spend a lot of time tuning rifles.

I did have my ammo lost once on a hunt in the Upper Luangwa valley. Luckily I was using a .375 H&H so it was easy to secure some in Lusaka. That experience has stuck with me.
 

TOBY458

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I also handload everything and have since 1975. The exception being the Lott, I simply don’t run enough rounds through it, perhaps 200 or m300 per year. I actually have my own range, the bench is 100 yards from my reloading room as I spend a lot of time tuning rifles.

I did have my ammo lost once on a hunt in the Upper Luangwa valley. Luckily I was using a .375 H&H so it was easy to secure some in Lusaka. That experience has stuck with me.
Don't use such profanity (375) around @michael458 . Lol!!!
 

WAB

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Don't use such profanity (375) around @michael458 . Lol!!!

lol, thanks for the heads up Toby! We can’t mention the .243 to Bob or the .375 to Michael. Are there any others we need to know about?
 

Sabattiboy

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Almost everybody wants to be attached to a brand and that would be hard to do if we only got to say I killed an XYZ animal with a ABC bullet diameter and EFG bullet weight.
Years ago it was common for hunting or gun writers to grow a third leg that was attached to a 270 or other and no other cartridge existed because no other cartridge could live up to their third leg. Now days we have no telling how many cartridges that are within a heartbeat of each other but to read all the articles about them a person would think each ones extraordinary ballistics were provided by their name. Many cartridges still come and go having changed nothing.
I think it was Capstick that said something to the effect a 500gr bullet at 2400 fps would do anything needed when A Square was designing the 470 Capstick. When he was trying it out I never noticed any buffalo falling over dead in fright of being shot with a cartridge named Capstick.
 

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