Range Report --- Now I don't know what to do

There is a Canadian gunsmith called Ron Henrickson who has a grease powered set up for pushing out stuck live rounds from barrels, perfectly safe method, but a bit messy, has a video on YouTube, a really nice guy who will help genuine people with advice,he used to post on another forum till he got sick of useless comments from self opinionated idiots with no idea what they were talking about
Gumpy
 
That is an excellent action. Have the rear sight ears been machined off? Has the rear sight cavity been filled in? Does it cock on opening or closing? Would be a shame to throw it away. The bolt handle crack sounds to be an easy fix.

I find this stuck cartridge issue perplexing. 375 H&H is a belted cartridge. The purpose of the belt is to essentially prevent this very issue. The 404J, without belt and its gently sloping shoulder, is trickier to get head space adjustment coordinated with snap over. If everything isn't just right, a cartridge can easily be shoved too far into chamber when the extractor doesn't snap over the rim. But a belted cartridge should catch on the rim in the chamber to keep it from being pushed in too far when bolt is closed. Getting my 404's extractor properly tuned for snap over involved test cycling countless dummy cartridges that shoved too far into chamber and failed to extract. For those I simply opened the bolt and banged the butt hard on concrete floor. The dummies always shook loose.
 
There is a Canadian gunsmith called Ron Henrickson who has a grease powered set up for pushing out stuck live rounds from barrels, perfectly safe method, but a bit messy, has a video on YouTube, a really nice guy who will help genuine people with advice,he used to post on another forum till he got sick of useless comments from self opinionated idiots with no idea what they were talking about
Gumpy
Is that the Australian guy in Red Deer, Alberta?
 
Last edited:
You know that's an interesting idea.


That is a super, incredible offer. I don't know that I can accept offhand though. This thing needs enough work that I'd be leery of accepting such generosity without knowing that I can complete the project the way I would need to. I'll have to probably take a few days to assess and get past the depression this is inflicting to take an honest appraisal of the state of things.
@Rez Exelon
It would be a pity to see something bad happen to that rifle. It's already set up for magnum length rounds so you could go a 416 or a 458 Lott.
If'n it only failed on one round it ain't a write off and usually an easy fix.
If things we own broke and we threw them out my wife would have got rid of me years ago. Fortunately she kept me because she could see the good things.
Some guns are like that.
My wife thinks I'm a real treasure, but at times she would like to re- burry me again when I piss her off
Bob
 
Probably way off base here in but thought I'd ask anyway. You didn't accidentally try to load a 416 cartridge in 375? You had both guns at the range.
 
Probably way off base here in but thought I'd ask anyway. You didn't accidentally try to load a 416 cartridge in 375? You had both guns at the range.
No that's a completely fair question....I checked and it was the right round. I try to only unload whatever gun is being shot from the truck to firing line to prevent mishaps.

That is an excellent action. Have the rear sight ears been machined off? Has the rear sight cavity been filled in? Does it cock on opening or closing? Would be a shame to throw it away. The bolt handle crack sounds to be an easy fix.

I find this stuck cartridge issue perplexing. 375 H&H is a belted cartridge. The purpose of the belt is to essentially prevent this very issue. The 404J, without belt and its gently sloping shoulder, is trickier to get head space adjustment coordinated with snap over. If everything isn't just right, a cartridge can easily be shoved too far into chamber when the extractor doesn't snap over the rim. But a belted cartridge should catch on the rim in the chamber to keep it from being pushed in too far when bolt is closed. Getting my 404's extractor properly tuned for snap over involved test cycling countless dummy cartridges that shoved too far into chamber and failed to extract. For those I simply opened the bolt and banged the butt hard on concrete floor. The dummies always shook loose.
I've been remiss in adding pictures, but I've got some coming showing the issue itself. But this is her in her last glory photo:

20260503_224046.jpg

@Rez Exelon

If things we own broke and we threw them out my wife would have got rid of me years ago. Fortunately she kept me because she could see the good things.
Some guns are like that.
My wife thinks I'm a real treasure, but at times she would like to re- burry me again when I piss her off
Bob
Brother I feel that sentiment sooooo much. We just crossed our 11 year anniversary this weekend.
 
No that's a completely fair question....I checked and it was the right round. I try to only unload whatever gun is being shot from the truck to firing line to prevent mishaps.


I've been remiss in adding pictures, but I've got some coming showing the issue itself. But this is her in her last glory photo:

View attachment 763905

Brother I feel that sentiment sooooo much. We just crossed our 11 year anniversary this weekend.
That rifle deserves to live on. I'm looking down at my fifteen year-old French Brittany laying at my feet. She has likely seen her last hunting season. She's aging so fast now. Every minute it seems. I have spent nearly $20K to keep her operational ... but Time cannot be bribed. Not for living things anyway. We are not immortal but there is no reason why this gun cannot be. Rebuild it ... and rebuild yourself some in the process. And when you're done write a brief history, roll it up, sign it, and stuff it in the hollow of the butt stock behind the recoil pad.
 
Last edited:
Looks like the bolt handle broke at the weld where aftermarket non-dogleg knob and shaft was attached. Can be fixed but the bolt shaft can't get too hot during weld or it will warp. Two options: reweld the crack or replace the bolt. Replacing the bolt would require opening the bolt face ... I think. Just checked and P14 bolt face (for 303 British) is opened enough already for 375 H&H. You should be able to use one of those without modification. Head space would need to be reset but you'll have the barrel removed anyway to remove the stuck cartridge.

Can we see a photo of extractor attached to bolt.

Damn! I just tried to remove the extractor from my P14 donor and can't get it off applying finger pressure compression. Seems to have too much spring tension.
 
Last edited:
No that's a completely fair question....I checked and it was the right round. I try to only unload whatever gun is being shot from the truck to firing line to prevent mishaps.


I've been remiss in adding pictures, but I've got some coming showing the issue itself. But this is her in her last glory photo:

View attachment 763905

Brother I feel that sentiment sooooo much. We just crossed our 11 year anniversary this weekend.
@Rez Exelon
My beautiful wife has been by my side for 25 years and encourages my hunting.
Maybe because it gives her a break from me but she won't say that. She just says I think you need to get bush and reset and unwind.
Bob
 
@Rez Exelon
Re weld or new bolt.
Get stuck case removed. It looks like it is in the chamber correctly
If'n it were me I would remove the extractor from the bolt ( an easy job, rotate and slide forward like a Mauser.) . Then see if bolt will close and lock on the cartridge. If'n it does all good. Then take it out and shoot it. Then the case should come out easily.
If'n the bolt won't close and lock then it's a gunsmith job.
The offer of a replacement bolt still stands.
Bob
 
Looks like the bolt handle broke at the weld where aftermarket non-dogleg knob and shaft was attached. Can be fixed but the bolt shaft can't get too hot during weld or it will warp. Two options: reweld the crack or replace the bolt. Replacing the bolt would require opening the bolt face ... I think. Just checked and P14 bolt face (for 303 British) is opened enough already for 375 H&H. You should be able to use one of those without modification. Head space would need to be reset but you'll have the barrel removed anyway to remove the stuck cartridge.

Can we see a photo of extractor attached to bolt.

Damn! I just tried to remove the extractor from my P14 donor and can't get it off applying finger pressure compression. Seems to have too much spring tension.
@Ontario Hunter
You are correct the P14 bolt for the 303 is already the correct size bolt face for magnum cartridges.
The extractor removal can be a bit tricky, it has to be aligned correctly and needs a bit of pressure but can be done with a bit of effort.
Bob
 
@Rez Exelon
Re weld or new bolt.
Get stuck case removed. It looks like it is in the chamber correctly
If'n it were me I would remove the extractor from the bolt ( an easy job, rotate and slide forward like a Mauser.) . Then see if bolt will close and lock on the cartridge. If'n it does all good. Then take it out and shoot it. Then the case should come out easily.
If'n the bolt won't close and lock then it's a gunsmith job.
The offer of a replacement bolt still stands.
Bob
Well, I just dropped the action and bolt off with one of my local smiths for assistance, so here in about a week I'll get to find out what things are going to look like! By Wednesday I should have some of my on-order parts for the 416 so I might make another range visit to test that one out, but I don't know for sure. I'll do my best to keep the thread updated as I know more!
 
For my P14 no amount of finger pressure, not even with two hands, will lift the extractor keeper out of the groove in the bolt head. This is the same issue I encountered when building my 404 Jeffery on Czech 98 Mauser. I actually had to pry the extractor off the bolt with a screwdriver! Consequently, it pushed dummy cartridges too deep into the chamber when I attempted snap over. But 404 has no belt to stop this from happening (375 is a belted cartridge). Watching videos of others disassembling Mauser bolts clued me that my extractor had too much spring tension. Those guys could push down with thumb and twist and extractor popped right off. I reshaped the extractor to relieve some of the tension and snap over was consistent (except crappy RWS brass which have inconsistent rim thickness). The cartridges in the magazine also picked up much more smoothly, with pickup onto bolt face now occurring consistently at the same point during cycling. An alternative resolution I considered was increasing follower spring tension, but too much tension could force cartridges to jump the rail prematurely or altogether. Not enough extractor spring tension and the claw can lose its grip on the rim when cartridge is in the chamber and fired = case lodged in chamber = gun jammed = buffalo turns hunter into hamburger. Getting the feeding tuned correctly, especially for 404J, is a bit of an art. One nice benefit of relieving some of the extractor's spring tension is it now drops ejected loaded cartridges almost at my feet. However, spent cases still eject to the next zip code. This is, partly I presume, due to the heavy weight of loaded 404J cartridges vs empty cases.
 
NEVER use a wooden dowel to drive a stuck case out. The grain on a dowel virtually never runs straight the length of the dowel. Any more than a light tap will shear the dowel where the grain runs at an angle leaving two wedges that have now jammed into the rifling and is extremely difficult to remove. Then the idjits will commence hitting the dowel end harder multiple times, making it a permanent fixture in the barrel. Then they buy a bellhangers drill and destroy the barrel.
Just take it to a smith instead of wrecking the barrel or blowing some fingers off.
 
Well, I just dropped the action and bolt off with one of my local smiths for assistance, so here in about a week I'll get to find out what things are going to look like! By Wednesday I should have some of my on-order parts for the 416 so I might make another range visit to test that one out, but I don't know for sure. I'll do my best to keep the thread updated as I know more!
Since the gunsmith has the action out of the stock, consider adding a second crossbolt between trigger and magazine box. I think it would be difficult to match the forward crossbolt so this could be a good situation for hidden internal crossbolt. Weatherby came up with the concept. And it's something anyone can do in their basement with a Dremel tool, a piece of 1/4" threaded rod, and some JB Weld. A rifle of this caliber really should have two crossbolts. The stock will flex outward with heavy recoil, especially in its thinnest spots, i.e. around the magazine box. Two crossbolts surrounding the magazine box help keep the stock compressed at this vulnerable location.
 
So two updates:

1. Heard back from the smith today and he reports successfully extracting the problem cartridge, and that the barrel is in good working order without issues. Still have to unscrew the bolt situation which is in progress. Also, I tapped him to see if I can get a modern mount on this thing since apparently I'm going to be keeping it. The current old school mount has the rings set so far apart that it's a real challenge to find a scope that fit in them as most modern optics start to bell to the end glass way sooner than this mount supports.

2. I got the breech block (locking block?) replacement for the Ruger No1 in, so my next thing there is to get out the calipers and measure the firing pins and do some comparison between that and what is in my current one. I'm still waiting on the higher power hammer spring to arrive.

So forward progress at least.
 
Okay, so I'm due another update. Buckle up, because this is a wall of text.

Got the gun back from my gunsmith. He showed me his trick to get the thing out, and it was pretty cool. He reports no damage to the chamber or rifling so that is positive. Bolt handle repaired and he did a nice job on that if I do say so. It's still a weird bolt in that the previous owner basically shaved half the material down, but he matched the profile as needed for the rifle.

Now that I got it back and assembled it, I decided I needed to try it. So first things first, I took the 5 pieces of fired brass from the fateful range day, prepped them with the same dies and such that I used previously and stuck 5 different bullet types in them. For obvious reasons there was no powder or primers involved in this test.

So this is where things get interesting. First bullet was a 300gr solid of some sort (all of these came from my "extras and leftovers" pile, so I can't be 100% sure on makers, but I set their COAL based on matching profiles in the variety of loading manuals I have. This particular one sat at 3.590 IIRC and it fed in fine, bolt closed fine, came out fine.

Then the 270's came up and things started getting interesting. The first one bolt closed fine, but didn't want to come up. My PTSD kicked in hard here, but I gently thwacked the handle till it popped up. Put it to the side. The next 270, a 250 and 230 all were about the same, but none of them nearly locked the handle. So 4/5 were unhappy.

Mind you, this is after I had cleaned the dies expectionally well, but 4/5 with issues made me think die issue. These were definitely antiquated Pacific dies after all. So I got a set of RCBS out, cleaned them, pulled the bullets and ran the brass through there. First thing I noticed is that I had a fair amount more resistance in the handle of the press when running with these dies on the downstroke (FL sizing) and maybe a touch more on the up (necking). So I queued up all the bullets again, and started testing.

There was...a resounding difference. Bolt handle was smooth on all bullet types, no pressure on extraction, really no issues of any kind I noticed. So I'm tentatively saying that the "stick" might have been caused by dies that need to go to the parts bin. Or stored with a note saying "not for this rifle!".

Now, unfortunately the day was not a complete success. The other ongoing issue is generally getting the rifle to feed correctly. I think the "stick" was really two parts. First being that the dies were bad, but that was exaggerated by the feed issue, in that if the round didn't come up onto the bolt face correctly, it'd get shoved into a weird spot. And then I stroked another in behind it to jam it in place where the extractor couldn't hook it anyways.

So keep in mind that this rifle is setup with a magnum length piece of bottom metal and box, but apparently it uses the original long action spring and follower. So it just is never quite aligned right. Maybe it's me, but when putting rounds in you have to make sure each is straight and level or it won't come up right and get caught by the bolt, or worse, they'll just pop up out of the box when they shouldn't. So I think I need to see if I can source a new spring/follower setup.

Interestingly, this led me down a dark and winding path to my "box O random parts that came with this rifle and a trapdoor carbine" that I hadn't looked at in 7 years. Mainly because I thought it was all trapdoor parts. As it turns out, it had the original 1917 butt plates, some original bottom metal, some triggers, some sights, and such. But not a spring or follower. But hey, that box had more fun stuff in it than I knew. So back to the search for parts on this one.

The 416 is still pending. I got a replacement block but my gunsprings order is backordered still. I will probably just have to cancel and pay the ebay tax to get one from there since I don't want to wait all summer.
 
Glad you at least figured out part of your problem. In my 30 Express (same action as 1917) .375 H&H build I used a magnum long action Remington 700 follower. I tested the original 1917 follower, a Magnum 98 Mauser follower, and the 700 follower. The 700 follower gave the best feeding in my rifle. I hope the rails were not opened up too far on your rifle. It sounds like they are popping free prematurely, which could be indicative of rail problems, though it may be solved by a different follower.

Here is my 30 Express feed throat and 700 follower. The Magnum 700 follower fills up the magazine box front to back, unlike the mauser and 1917 follower.

30 Express 375 magazine.jpg
 

Forum statistics

Threads
68,961
Messages
1,536,375
Members
158,918
Latest member
Yummers1971
 

 

 
 
Top