Ranch Lion Hunting in South Africa

[johnnyblues]

Is it lost on anyone that Cecil was a wild lion, hunted in a wild setting? Cecil had nothing whatsoever to do with captive bred lions or animals.

Yet - and this is the important point - a wild hunt is generally considered to be the impetus for a ban on hunting (by way of an import ban) of the animal concerned.

Do we need more or better evidence that this movement isn't about captive animal hunting but about hunting generally?

Remember, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!

That's my point Hank. Were will it stop? I know it makes no difference weather it's wild or captive bred lion. It's always been about hunting. Our way of life makes them sick. Just as sick as they and our Gov't makes me sick.

 

[enysse]

Do we need more or better evidence that this movement isn't about captive animal hunting but about hunting generally?

Oh for sure, I caught on to this years ago. The antis will say anything and just say have Africa solve the problem and we will think about allowing import of elephant and lion trophies.

All this legislation is not about what is right for the elephant or lion, it's about closing down hunting. And they will now use past legislation for future legislation........

The antis know damn well that the wild lion population is facing ridiculous human problems but they won't lift a finger to do anything about it.

 

[LivingTheDream]

See this is why I think we are always going to lose ground to the anti's, we dedicated our time preservation, conservation, outdoors scouting and hunting. They dedicate all of their time to stopping us (or at least making us as miserable as possible). So imagine if we focused all of our efforts, money and time to mess with them.

 

[johnnyblues]

See this is why I think we are always going to lose ground to the anti's, we dedicated our time preservation, conservation, outdoors scouting and hunting. They dedicate all of their time to stopping us (or at least making us as miserable as possible). So imagine if we focused all of our efforts, money and time to mess with them.

Your right Mike, this is why I've said repeatedly we need a high powered PR firm to stand by us, to put out a positive message with the FACTS . To bring out the good sportsman do for animals , for conservation, for the people of the areas we hunt. Not only in Africa but here in the states. Many people have asked me after successful deer hunts " what did you do with the meat "? I told them it was donated to needy families in the area I hunted. They then accepted I killed a deer to a degree. SCI and DSC are just not fighting the right way IMO. It's a new world with social media and increased liberal thinking.

 

[johnnyblues]

It is what they do because that's where the money is.

Follow the money. If hunting were eliminated tomorrow - all hunting, the whole world became vegans - imagine how many NGOs would be bankrupt. Where would the HSUS get its money? Antis need us to create cash flow for themselves.

When one "hunter" does something wrong, they suggest that that's what hunting is about, and that's how hunters are. We all know that isn't the case - as BWH says, one bad apple doesn't spoil it for everyone. So we need to get the message out that yes, bad things can be done in the name of hunting, and when those things are done, we will deal with them harshly. But some bad guys don't make the activity bad.

Excatly where a great public relations firm would help.

 

[vette447]

Import all the Photos you want. They can't stop that.
Go hunting, you just can't take the trophy home.

This whole situation is just irritating for all of the reasons mentioned. Mainly that this ruling does little to actually help Lions survive and much more to stop sport hunting by Americans. The antis are just idealogically opposed to hunting and their anti-hunting fervor outweighs any facts or common sense that would actually help the species that they supposedly care about.

However, having said all of that. I would encourage those of you that still want to hunt lion to do so. At least in SA, I would imagine they are going to become very affordable and I can tell you that as long as it is done correctly and ethically, (no drugs, large area, plenty of time between release and the hunt) hunting lions on foot is an unforgettable experience. Well worth the cost of admission even if you only get to bring home photos and memories. Take someone you care about with you too so that you can share the experience with them. You won't regret it IMHO.

 

[gizmo]

any animal shot and killed in a cage or squeeze chute is murder,not hunting and the killer and those responsible for the setup should be fed to a heard of live pigs while still alive!!!!! i would like to think that the lion hunting in question is carried out with fair hunting practices in mind.hope im not naive on this issue.

I WOULD AGREE IT IS CERTAINLY NOT HUNTING. That is more of a cattle/feed lot operation. If a lion/lioness is on a 5000 acre game ranch +/-..... trackers used, etc. That's still hunting. Unless I am naïve as well, I think the Lion still has the advantage.

Neither of your are naive.
I can only speak from my experience in hunting 1 lion in SA. I was with a very reputable outfitter on a large ranch with a, for lack of a better term, "herd" of lions on it along with ever other animal one can expect to find in the African Kalahari. I can tell you it is very damn real and the lion(s) certainly have the advantage. My family had a very close call who were waiting in what was supposed to be a safer area as the cat looped around us who were in the hunting party. I was pretty sure at one point I was going to be eaten and was absolutely scared shitless on several occasions, not to try and sound tough or anything but I don't scare easily. I hunted buff on the same property after I killed a male lion and had another lion stalk me while we were trying to follow up on my wounded buff. I can't imagine a more real and dangerous situation than that! Lions are smart, crafty, and cunning and I can assure you if stalked on foot the way I did it very difficult to hunt without ending up as cat crap. To that lion I was mother more than a pork chop. The lions on the ranch hunted and killed their food and we found buzzards circling a lion kill and I have it on video. I can't speak for everyone not every place but I can say I have done it and the ranch I was on does it right. I swear to you I felt like I was in a Peter Capstick book and was saying my Hail Mary's hoping I would make it out. I know the ranch I was on was 39000 hectacres and there were cross fences but really the only fences I can recall seeing were the ones when you drive in the gate and onto the property and the one that surrounded the lodge to keep the lions from eating you while at the lodge. In reality the interior fence dividing the lodge from the rest of the ranch wouldn't really keep a lion out anyway and we saw leopard tracks around camp. We had a hellava scare the last night there as it sounded like a lion got in the lodge area and was roaring all night long. Everyone slept with their rifles all night and I don't know that anyone really slept well. We walked for at least 30 or more miles, not in a straight line of course, chasing lion and buff during our time there and fences never became an issue. If done properly like the wonderful folks I was honored to hunt with its every bit as real as anywhere in Africa and I don't give a damn what anyone says, I've done it. As far as regulations are concerned it is highly regulated and every one has to be followed. These are designed to make sure the lion has the advantage and I can assure you every one is strictly enforced. Hell they even limit the number of people that you can have in the hunting party on the actual hunt. Not to mention there is 45 min worth of paperwork you have to go through and sign acknowledging the rules and telling you what happens if you don't follow them. Not to mention the number of waivers that you have to sign in case you get eaten which is a very real and distinct possibility. Let's not forget what happened to one of our PH's last spring and we all saw the video. That was on a "fenced" SA lion hunt too. I know this has started a lot of shit before but I firmly believe these hunts are far more dangerous than those in what people call "wild" lion hunts. For starters they aren't over bait so you are close only feet away at times and the lions have no fear of you whatsoever. "Wild" lions definitely do. Why the hell do you think people get eaten in parks so often, because the lions don't fear you. It's no different and you are no different than any other animal running around the ranch. The lions on the ranch I was on hunted for a living or they didn't eat just as in nature. All the animals myself included were scared shitless of the lions and for good reason. This debate is another example of a few hollier than thou people who have never experienced a SA lion hunt personally. I have and can speak from personal experience. This type of lion hunt has tremendous conservation value. It gives the animals an economic value and takes pressure off of wild lion populations. That's a fact.

 

[gizmo]

This whole situation is just irritating for all of the reasons mentioned. Mainly that this ruling does little to actually help Lions survive and much more to stop sport hunting by Americans. The antis are just idealogically opposed to hunting and their anti-hunting fervor outweighs any facts or common sense that would actually help the species that they supposedly care about.

However, having said all of that. I would encourage those of you that still want to hunt lion to do so. At least in SA, I would imagine they are going to become very affordable and I can tell you that as long as it is done correctly and ethically, (no drugs, large area, plenty of time between release and the hunt) hunting lions on foot is an unforgettable experience. Well worth the cost of admission even if you only get to bring home photos and memories. Take someone you care about with you too so that you can share the experience with them. You won't regret it IMHO.

Here here

 

[johnnyblues]

Neither of your are naive.
I can only speak from my experience in hunting 1 lion in SA. I was with a very reputable outfitter on a large ranch with a, for lack of a better term, "herd" of lions on it along with ever other animal one can expect to find in the African Kalahari. I can tell you it is very damn real and the lion(s) certainly have the advantage. My family had a very close call who were waiting in what was supposed to be a safer area as the cat looped around us who were in the hunting party. I was pretty sure at one point I was going to be eaten and was absolutely scared shitless on several occasions, not to try and sound tough or anything but I don't scare easily. I hunted buff on the same property after I killed a male lion and had another lion stalk me while we were trying to follow up on my wounded buff. I can't imagine a more real and dangerous situation than that! Lions are smart, crafty, and cunning and I can assure you if stalked on foot the way I did it very difficult to hunt without ending up as cat crap. To that lion I was mother more than a pork chop. The lions on the ranch hunted and killed their food and we found buzzards circling a lion kill and I have it on video. I can't speak for everyone not every place but I can say I have done it and the ranch I was on does it right. I swear to you I felt like I was in a Peter Capstick book and was saying my Hail Mary's hoping I would make it out. I know the ranch I was on was 39000 hectacres and there were cross fences but really the only fences I can recall seeing were the ones when you drive in the gate and onto the property and the one that surrounded the lodge to keep the lions from eating you while at the lodge. In reality the interior fence dividing the lodge from the rest of the ranch wouldn't really keep a lion out anyway and we saw leopard tracks around camp. We had a hellava scare the last night there as it sounded like a lion got in the lodge area and was roaring all night long. Everyone slept with their rifles all night and I don't know that anyone really slept well. We walked for at least 30 or more miles, not in a straight line of course, chasing lion and buff during our time there and fences never became an issue. If done properly like the wonderful folks I was honored to hunt with its every bit as real as anywhere in Africa and I don't give a damn what anyone says, I've done it. As far as regulations are concerned it is highly regulated and every one has to be followed. These are designed to make sure the lion has the advantage and I can assure you every one is strictly enforced. Hell they even limit the number of people that you can have in the hunting party on the actual hunt. Not to mention there is 45 min worth of paperwork you have to go through and sign acknowledging the rules and telling you what happens if you don't follow them. Not to mention the number of waivers that you have to sign in case you get eaten which is a very real and distinct possibility. Let's not forget what happened to one of our PH's last spring and we all saw the video. That was on a "fenced" SA lion hunt too. I know this has started a lot of shit before but I firmly believe these hunts are far more dangerous than those in what people call "wild" lion hunts. For starters they aren't over bait so you are close only feet away at times and the lions have no fear of you whatsoever. "Wild" lions definitely do. Why the hell do you think people get eaten in parks so often, because the lions don't fear you. It's no different and you are no different than any other animal running around the ranch. The lions on the ranch I was on hunted for a living or they didn't eat just as in nature. All the animals myself included were scared shitless of the lions and for good reason. This debate is another example of a few hollier than thou people who have never experienced a SA lion hunt personally. I have and can speak from personal experience. This type of lion hunt has tremendous conservation value. It gives the animals an economic value and takes pressure off of wild lion populations. That's a fact.

Amen my friend.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I think once the prices adjust a little I will definitely hunt them. Heck if the price is low enough I might even take 2.

 

[johnnyblues]

I think once the prices adjust a little I will definitely hunt them. Heck if the price is low enough I might even take 2.

Just would hate to only have pictures. I wanted to hunt one in 2018 but that's not looking good right now, never know by then though.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Just would hate to only have pictures. I wanted to hunt one in 2018 but that's not looking good right now, never know by then though.

I will say if it was my first and/or only Lion hunt, honestly it would be so hard to leave it. That moment when you walk up on your lion is a very emotional experience. There was a little bit of terror when I didn't think I was gonna get mine back.

It was the most intense experience of my life and just the opportunity to do it is an honor, import or no import, I hope I can do it again.

 

[stug]

One way you guys in the US can show USFW that their policy is not working is to keep hunting lions. Use the money saved on taxidermy to get a professional videographer to record your hunt. Might not be as nice as having the mount in your house but watching the video over and over will bein the memories back.