Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by observe, Oct 1, 2011.
This is the breeding buffalo bull that went recently on an auction for R18 mil.!
Somebody must be crazy to spend that kind of money!
Are there any sizeable populations of hoofed game ANYWHERE in Africa that were not introduced or re-introduced by man? That is, naturally re-populating herds (that can be hunted) that date back to the origin of that particular species in that particular area? I ask this in all seriousness b/c I don't know the answer...It appears parts of Africa have become like parts of Texas...vast ranches with trucked-in or genetically improved (eg:tampered) animals...
This looks exactly like a picture I used 10 years ago. Are you sure this is real?
this one has ear tags...
This past year i saw some cape buffalo with ear tags.
Guys, the story is true the bull was bought on a Thaba tholo auction by Peter Bellingham, however it is the wrong picture, I believe the bulls name was Senatla, Joester I belive that you are slightly of par, this bull or its offspring will Never be hunter breeding has become a hobby of the super Wealthy and is completely srperate from the hunting side, unless you'r willing to pay 3 bar for a buff?
Yes there are drop and shoot operations or meat factories but thats on regular game, It also has nothing to do wit repopulation, Africa in particular South africa and Zim even bots and zambia have healthy populations of wild buff much more so than Bison in the US
My best always!
It definitely shows that a few people have way too much money on their hands! That's a lot of money for a Buffalo!
If you would like to see crazy people in action spending money.
Compare the pictures for yourself.
Another bull on this auction went for a million USD, on a auction a little earlier, a livingston Eland bull went for over a hundred thousand US $, .......mad!!!
This is my issue guys the same is happening in the hunting industry with guys buying game dropping them off and shooting the kak out of them and they put themselves out there as ethical outfitters, once again not all do this but a good majority operate along these lines, it is not sustainable it has nothing to do with conservation it is definitly not hunting and it is wrong.
As for the breeders buying these species I have very closely related family doing this, it has become a game or a _ ick measuring contest now we have black kudu, white kudu, white Eland and all this other kak that guys are trying to spin money off, I just dont feel any good coming from this and predict that the market will end up falling on its face.
Once again not pointing fingers at anyone but WOW!!!!
My best always.
LOL now we can have a debate without me hijacking your thread LOL.
I have two viewpoints with regards to this whole story:
1st it is good that such an exceptional value has been placed on very rare and defiantly impressive breeding stock but in saying this I think the important thing to remember here is that Cape buffalo bulls like these are bought for their genes and not to be shot. As you know well if you want to conserve something the key is to put a price on it's head so to speak this will lure private investors and a lot of money at the same time no investor will take any chances with their investment and this is were it turns ugly for me they are camped in and treated as livestock, you cant actually blame the investor since he has a lot of money in that animal and he needs to see returns on his investment? All and all the benefits outweigh the drawbacks here breeders are looking for better genes, better blood lines and always selling and buying in so there is a small chance of in breeding. This will ensure that we have some of the best African game for years and years to come.
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] The breeding or in breading of white kudu, black impala??.. is surely just a phase it will pass but it is not good to practice in breeding and this has no long term advantages to it the overall trophy quality wont easily get any better you might get some animals with other defects due to the in breeding I can go on but all and all it is pretty much a sad story.
Now we get to the ugly side as Jaco described but it is not a breeding game as much as it is something between the game capturer and a hunting operation, some outfits do buy in game to be shot this has started happening in a lot of places I have even herd about this happening in the big wild area's of Tanzania?
The up side is that game farmers have started to realize the value of certain animals (example kudu) and are putting a premium price on some bulls, the price keeps going up until it is basically impossible to buy in fully grown trophies of kudu or waterbuck. As the hunting industry is today it is growing ever more competitive and pricing plays a large role so they key would be to price fairly and competitively and I simply cant see one doing that if you form part of the buy in and shoot segment?As you said it is not sustainable the key is to have additional land to your disposal (be it your own land or concessions) and have quota's made up on each property on a yearly basis. Now in saying concessions I am not referring to the guy who drives on the N1 and says all the land both sides of the highway is his concession land LOL this is usually were the I hunt on 100 000 acres come from, if you have a concession I firmly believe that you should at least know the owner on a first name basis and work with him on a yearly basis monitoring the numbers of game taken off his property and if you a are lucky enough to call him your neighbor well all the better!
There are a lot of operations that buy in game for breeding purposes or who will buy in nice bulls or cows of X just to introduce new genes these animals will usually be to young to hunt and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with that, man has interfered with fences and now unfortunately we have to keep interfering to ensure no in breeding or to introduce species that would have been previously found in that area.
I firmly believe that there is something to be said for hunting a specie in it's native habitat certain provinces in South Africa have stricter rules against introducing non indigenous species than others resulting in hunting Africa becoming more about the numbers of game taken on a hunt instead of the overall quality of animals taken. This also opens up the door to the game capturers who can supply these shoot and drop operations on a regular basis to replenish the stock so to speak. Here is were it becomes a numbers game basically called turnover?
Jaco I am just spit balling here but maybe a good thing would be to hunt each specie in its native habitat this will defiantly ensure a better overall hunting experience?
I don't know what the long-term solution is but hopefully buying in prices will soon exceed the trophy price that will surely put a stop to this whole debate.
Looking forward to having that beer and putting heads together so to speak!
Louis van Bergen
I have to agree with Louise and Jaco they have some good points. If there goin to breed for colors then they need to input some game laws as to prevent them from getting out of the fenced area here in the state alot of our Exotic Game are ear tagged if they get out of the fenced area then they are open game for everyone and the owner of the animals lose out. it happened once that I know of in Alaska were a man was raising Bison for meat and hunting his bison got out of the fenced area and the guy thought he would let them roam around for a bit for some free breeding with the Alaskan Woodland Bison Fish and game let him know that if he did not get his animals caught up in a stated amount of time that they would have to put out the word and hordes of hunters would be looking for bison with tags in there ears.
Louis, Agreed 100% aparantly you where not kidding when you said that we do agree on many issues, Bob we do have game laws in place for such colour variations but they are just not being enforced which blows my mind, Red or So called golden Wildebeest started 15 years ago with an old gentleman who was very close to my heart by the name of Jaap Seegers he was the first to start selling these at a noticeable price, it is amazing how they have increased, they use to go for about R15 000 and now they are going close to a 100 000 US.
Crazy! geuss that as long as there is wildlife and humans mixed in that there will be money to be made.
My best always.
Great thread. My background is in Gentics and breeding animals and the outcome has always been intresting to me. Just because the bull has 50" horns does not mean the offspring will have better horns..it might be carried on the female side, there are lots and lots of variables, that being said I hope that the African game does not become the "Texas Whitetail" game where they are protein feed out the wazoo to have "big mass', lots of trash, and score out of this world. I'd still like the idea of a 60 kudu bull being special, and a 50" buffalo bull to be almost unheard of... thats why we hunt!
I do tip my hat to all the "farmers" that work hard everyday so we can still hunt some species of animals-- looks what is happing to the Oryx and dama gazzell here in the state-- with in the next year I bet the pop in the states is cut in half do to taking the value off them--sad!!!!!
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