Question on leaving a rifle as a gift in South Africa

Discussion in 'Before & After the Hunt' started by George2014, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. George2014

    George2014 AH Member

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    I am going to SA in few months and wanted to bring a rifle with me as a gift to my PH.
    Does anyone know whats required legally to be able to do this?
    I contacted ATF but they did not provide any usable guidelines.
     

  2. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    i think you will find it would be a nightmare.........just take him to a good gun shop and buy him one there ...then the only aggro he will have is trying to get it licensed....or leave him the money to buy the equivalent rifle you want to take.....but could be wrong as dont know how it works in SA....but i doubt its worth the aggro....
     
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  3. mdwest

    mdwest AH Fanatic

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    The ATF isnt going to have a lot of information on this.. what you need to be looking at are the import and export laws/regulations for both the US and SA.

    "exporting" a hunting rifle has gotten a whole lot easier over the past 12 months.. the export of all firearms used to be controlled by the International Trafficking of Arms Regulations (ITAR), which is controlled by DDTC at the US State Department.

    Recently that has changed though, and the export of firearms that are not military by nature are now controlled by BIS at the US Dept of Commerce (via a lower set of regulations).. My experience with BIS vs DDTC is that they are generally slower to process paperwork and a little more difficult to deal with.. but that less overall work is required to apply for an export license through BIS..

    Youre going to have to apply for a permanent export license.. you can do that on your own.. but it would probably be easier/better to hire a broker or FFL that has experience doing this.. If your paperwork is not exact/precise, it will almost certainly get rejected and have to be re-submitted.. and the process can take a substantial amount of time from beginning to end..

    And the recipient of the firearm is going to have to get permission to import the firearm through whichever governing body in SA handles such things..

    Here's a starting point for you: https://www.bis.doc.gov/

    FWIW, I am NOT an import/export expert.. there is probably someone here that has a far better understanding of what is required than I do.. I just work in a field and for a firm that exports a lot of regulated/controlled stuff... and oversee the guys that do this for us..
     
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  4. mdwest

    mdwest AH Fanatic

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    I agree with the above..

    depending on what rifle you are talking about.. the time and the money required to export a gun might be pretty close to the purchase price of just picking something similar up locally..

    and picking it up locally avoids a ton of paperwork and general aggregation..
     
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  5. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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  6. Graham Hunter

    Graham Hunter AH Enthusiast

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    From what I understand each firearm has to be registered to the owner and they have to obtain a permit. Then they would have to pay the import tax on it which could be as much or more than the cost of the firearm. I am a Gun Dealer and have offered this to my PH's but wasn't worth it. There are several good gunshops in Joberg and although the prices are high it would be better to buy one for him there.
     
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  7. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    Can be done as long as you follow the correct procedure and apply for a permanent import permit and not a temporary one as a temporary one cannot be converted to a permanent one once the rifle has arrived in SA. So in short you cannot bring the rifle over on a temporary import permit and then leave it here as a gift.

    The recipient needs to apply for the licence before the permanent import permit expires.

    It is much easier if the recipient is registered as a Bona Fide hunter with SAPS. If he is so registered he can also get a storage permit for such a rifle until the licence is issued.

    Yes paperwork shlep but not such a big deal.

    Play open cards with the recipient and make sure what you want to bring is what he would actually want and use.

    http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/consulate/importing fire arms.html

    http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/consulate/customs and excise.html
     

  8. George2014

    George2014 AH Member

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    Thank you all for your quick responses to my question. It seems that the general consensus is that it may be more hassle then its worth. The rifle I was planning to leave him was a Winchester XPR in a .308 which is not very expensive. I will take the information provided by MDWEST and try BIS to get a permit. My friend/PH in SA indicated he can cover his end without a problem. At this point I just want to do what is legally required from the USA side. My thoughts were also to leave him one of my dangerous game rifles so that I would not have to cart it over all the time. If it turns out to be too much of a hassle I will abandon the effort and maybe buy him a rifle in SA as suggested.
    Thank you all again

    George
     

  9. Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris

    Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Enthusiast

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    Your ph needs to get a
    Permanent import permit takes 8-12 weeks
    Then it is valid for him to keep it in SA
    Then he has to get it licensed
    It is quite a mission and with the uncertainty of how long the permit will take to get you may miss the window of while you are in SA with the rifle

    Regards
     

  10. 375 Ruger Fan

    375 Ruger Fan AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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  11. George2014

    George2014 AH Member

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    Thank you for the information really appreciate it . Based on you inputs I will not have the time to clear the permit.
    Regards
    George
     

  12. George2014

    George2014 AH Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to post the screen shots, really appreciate the input. I was hoping to travel with it and just leave it there. Seems to be more hassle then its worth.
    Regards
    George
     

  13. Chago

    Chago AH Member

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    Say you got robbed.....
     

  14. mdwest

    mdwest AH Fanatic

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    I’m pretty sure doing that would be committing a felony both in the US and SA.
     

  15. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    That would sure make a future road block very interesting for the PH.
     

  16. Chago

    Chago AH Member

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    Lol. In Canada when the government changes laws on a gun model. We just "sell it to Mike in Canmore". Lol.

    Canmore is middle of no where. And Mike, is most common name.
     

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