Politics

[sgt_zim]

Oh dear lord, do you really believe this is right? The overwhelming majority of agents and their supervisors are straight arrows. As a group they are some of the sharpest people around and could have made a far better living doing something else, but they choose to serve. The Director and his boss the Attorney General are obviously corrupt, but don’t take it out on the field agents. They have bosses and need to follow orders.

By the way, J Edgar was no guardian of democracy.

When I was in the financial crimes unit in Houston PD, I worked quite a lot with the FBI agents assigned to the same thing. They were top notch, accountants and attorneys, and we worked well together. I do not have nearly the same level of respect for the rest of them.

I don't know how much things have changed with the FBI, but back then, the bulk of the FBI was COINTEL, not law enforcement. My guess is things haven't really changed much in 20 years.

 

[sgt_zim]

You’re throwing thousands of agents in the same bucket as a very few bad apples. How is what you are calling for any different than “abolish ICE” and ”defund the police”? Threatening FBI agents like this is horse shit. Over and out.

Thought-provoking, if nothing else.

 

[Ray B]

Over and out.

Ha Ha Ha Ha A real radio operator would see the humor with that sign off.

 

[Sabattiboy]

You’re throwing thousands of agents in the same bucket as a very few bad apples. How is what you are calling for any different than “abolish ICE” and ”defund the police”? Threatening FBI agents like this is horse shit. Over and out.

The question remains how many will follow orders vs quit the job.

 

[Tbitty]

Ha Ha Ha Ha A real radio operator would see the humor with that sign off.

 

[Ray B]

the humor is Over & Out- strictly Hollywood. However the worse example is Roger, Willco, Over & Out.

 

[CraigV]

I don't know anything about them either, but I bet those codes, and fail safe measures, are one of the most highly guarded things in the country.

I'm not a fan of him, but Clinton 42 lost the codes - gave them to a staffer I believe, until there was an inventory.....

I also recall under the same administration, picking up a Navy Commander, (and giving him a ride to the AF1), who had been left at his hotel - carrying the football, while the rest of the 42 party was about 30 minutes ahead of him.

You decide if this is acceptable or not.

 

[RTG]

The above IRS agent qualifications would logically only be required for forced confiscation of property.

With 87,000 of them, I think you are right.

 

[RTG]

There’s a whole lotta difference between rounding folks up for concentration camps and exercising a search warrant for classified documents. The field agents exercised a warrant. Nothing more. They do that every day. Trump having been President doesn’t allow him to keep classified documents after leaving office. They did their job. Now the DOJ has to make its case (I don’t think they have one) and if there’s a chargeable offense, then he will get his day in court. If you believe like I do that Hillary should be in jail for her handling of state secrets, then how can Trump’s alleged behavior be ok?

The SS did their job too. Nothing more right?

The average FBI agent cares more about their paycheck than your life, liberty or constitutional rights. One would have to be blind to not recognize that their agency has been weaponized against one political party, for the direct benefit of another. Any ethical person would at very least resign. What remains is scum.

A warrant signed by a magistrate because no real judge would touch it, even while the DOJ judge-shopped it. There is no bright side here.

 

[RTG]

I get a real kick out of the Washington Compost storyline, that Trump stole the nuclear launch codes. As if someone can just walk into a missile silo, punch in the numbers, and fire away. You would think that the military would be smart enough to change codes after each President?
The MSM. Smart as a box of rocks. Trying their best to fool the low information voters.

Anyone who believes Trump stole nuclear secrets is an idiot. A couple coordinated pinheads in the MSM start a baseless rumor, and then see it repeated a million times before proven false. Those who watch CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC will believe this crap forever, just like russia collusion which the FBI rammed down the nations throat. Baseless, factless, thoughtless, yet severly limited our presidents domestic agenda for over 2 years. This was a coup d'état, and guess what: they won.

Bend over here it comes.

 

[Doug3006]

The SS did their job too. Nothing more right?

The average FBI agent cares more about their paycheck than your life, liberty or constitutional rights. One would have to be blind to not recognize that their agency has been weaponized against one political party, for the direct benefit of another. Any ethical person would at very least resign. What remains is scum.

A warrant signed by a magistrate because no real judge would touch it, even while the DOJ judge-shopped it. There is no bright side here.

Comparisons of the FBI with the Gestapo or SS are so overwrought it’s pathetic. Please read any of the many accounts of what those organizations did.

 

[RTG]

Comparisons of the FBI with the Gestapo or SS are so overwrought it’s pathetic. Please read any of the many accounts of what those organizations did.

Every horrible story has a beginning.

Didn’t the SA/SS get their start smearing, intimidating and attacking political rivals? Just like the FBI has done to Trump for over six years now. But forget about the last five years of Russian collusion lies and deceit. There good people this time, right?

 

[Brent in Az]

Fire everyone involved in the Trump raid. Dan Bongino is always on point.

 

[Doug3006]

Every horrible story has a beginning.

Didn’t the SA/SS get their start smearing, intimidating and attacking political rivals? Just like the FBI has done to Trump for over six years now. But forget about the last five years of Russian collusion lies and deceit. There good people this time, right?

Read about the Night of the Long Knives. That’s how the SS and Gestapo made their bones as they say.

 

[Ray B]

This was a coup d'état, and guess what: they won.

While "they" may be having their way at the moment, I disagree that they have won- As Yogi Berra said "It ain't over 'til it's over"

 

[Newboomer]

I'm not a fan of him, but Clinton 42 lost the codes - gave them to a staffer I believe, until there was an inventory.....

I also recall under the same administration, picking up a Navy Commander, (and giving him a ride to the AF1), who had been left at his hotel - carrying the football, while the rest of the 42 party was about 30 minutes ahead of him.

You decide if this is acceptable or not.

We-e-ell, look who you're talking about. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer. The brains slipped down considerably.

 

[RTG]

Read about the Night of the Long Knives. That’s how the SS and Gestapo made their bones as they say.

SA was active in 1921, SS in 1925. I guess they just twiddled their thumbs until the night of the long knives in 1934. I’m very familiar with World War I and World War II German history, thank you. More than you evidently.

Justifying criminal or immoral behavior for one group is no different than doing it for another. The FBI has been actively destroying lives and opporating against the constitution. We are not governed by a guilty until proven innocent legal system. That is the burden of proof that the FBI has demanded of the Trump administration for over six years. It’s criminal. It’s wrong. Don’t sugarcoat it.

 

[Newboomer]

SA was active in 1921, SS in 1925. I guess they just twiddled their thumbs until the night of the long knives in 1934. I’m very familiar with World War I and World War II German history, thank you. More than you evidently.

Justifying criminal or immoral behavior for one group is no different than doing it for another. The FBI has been actively destroying lives and opporating against the constitution. We are not governed by a guilty until proven innocent legal system. That is the burden of proof that the FBI has demanded of the Trump administration for over six years. It’s criminal. It’s wrong. Don’t sugarcoat it.

By it's very name "Investigation" it was conceived to spy on people. J. Eddie had a fetish with it and amassed files on everyone he thought disagreed with him. Obviously, it has gotten quite out of hand in the last century and barely resembles what it's real mission is or was. Like all federal departments, it needs a good housecleaning occasionally. Trump attempted to and look what the commucrats are doing to him.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

What on earth is going on with Trump?

could he really be so foolish as to take and keep documents that are so important that their possession represents a security threat

are they docs that he, when in power, declassified

if so does he have the legal (and moral) right to declassify state secrets?

is this merely a smoke screen to get hold of evidence damaging to others (Hilary et all)?

can he really be jailed?

if so - how would his supporters react?

is there any social or political cohesion remaining in the US?

If society is so divided that there is no common ground, can democracy continue to function?

what do these events mean for the short to medium term for the US, and by extension, the rest of the western world?

the UK is rudderless and the only leaders that appear to be functioning are those that lead two totalitarian nuclear powers; the fat controller in N Korea and a cult leadership in Iran

confused? I am !

Sensible questions @bowjijohn .
I think this raid will go down in history as a huge mistake that will cost the Democrats dearly. And as you say, well beyond them. Lets try to analyse the probable chain of events, not just because they resulted in this dramatic armed raid, but because the same events could result in a far more damaging action for the USA if it reacts badly again.
The chain of authority probably went like this:
Pelosi must have given the instruction from on high, neither Joe nor Kamala would initiate this kind of action. Why would she do it? Only because Wray or Garland fed her some information and she made a determination that it was big enough of a deal to act upon. Getting the nod from her Garland told Wray to get on with it, and he over boiled it.
If there is nothing there, or the whole cause was overblown, they have probably sunk themselves and the Democrats.
if there is something there, they now have to prove it to act upon it, or what was the point? That means laying it out, and since it is so sensitive to have warranted this action they can't . In any event half of the population will not believe them and are even more pushed towards triggers.
Somebody fed Wray information, it comes from 'sources', and this all happened. Who, why, and was it enough to precipitate all this action? Or could they just have sat down with Trump's people?
The real billion dollar question is did Pelosi inform Joe, or even ask his permission? If she did and he allowed this fiasco to go ahead, they are both unfit to be making big decisions. If she acted alone she is unfit and maybe even legally culpable. If Harris wasn't informed, as is likely, she will be absolutely livid.
Whatever the answer, this is a monumental blunder of the leadership and there are three big takeaways:
1. The FBI look like partisan idiots and will be even less trusted by half of the population. Garland, if he acts upon anything and prosecutes Trump will likely start a civil war.
2. The decision making chain of the very top eschelons of the leadership of the USA has been shown to be nonsensible. There isn't an adult up there.
3. The wider world sees something resembling a squabbling kindergarten, not the wise and just leadership of the most powerful nation in the world.

My assessment: events have exceeded the ability of hate-filled little people to logically handle them. The Democrats are now acting upon their emotions. And at the time when a real president is needed as the ultimate check of wisdom there is an empty old idiot. God help us all. And that is not a little statement, it is an earnest prayer.

 

[sgt_zim]

Sensible questions @bowjijohn .
I think this raid will go down in history as a huge mistake that will cost the Democrats dearly. And as you say, well beyond them. Lets try to analyse the probable chain of events, not just because they resulted in this dramatic armed raid, but because the same events could result in a far more damaging action for the USA if it reacts badly again.
The chain of authority probably went like this:
Pelosi must have given the instruction from on high, neither Joe nor Kamala would initiate this kind of action. Why would she do it? Only because Wray or Garland fed her some information and she made a determination that it was big enough of a deal to act upon. Getting the nod from her Garland told Wray to get on with it, and he over boiled it.
If there is nothing there, or the whole cause was overblown, they have probably sunk themselves and the Democrats.
if there is something there, they now have to prove it to act upon it, or what was the point? That means laying it out, and since it is so sensitive to have warranted this action they can't . In any event half of the population will not believe them and are even more pushed towards triggers.
Somebody fed Wray information, it comes from 'sources', and this all happened. Who, why, and was it enough to precipitate all this action? Or could they just have sat down with Trump's people?
The real billion dollar question is did Pelosi inform Joe, or even ask his permission? If she did and he allowed this fiasco to go ahead, they are both unfit to be making big decisions. If she acted alone she is unfit and maybe even legally culpable. If Harris wasn't informed, as is likely, she will be absolutely livid.
Whatever the answer, this is a monumental blunder of the leadership and there are three big takeaways:
1. The FBI look like partisan idiots and will be even less trusted by half of the population. Garland, if he acts upon anything and prosecutes Trump will likely start a civil war.
2. The decision making chain of the very top eschelons of the leadership of the USA has been shown to be nonsensible. There isn't an adult up there.
3. The wider world sees something resembling a squabbling kindergarten, not the wise and just leadership of the most powerful nation in the world.

My assessment: events have exceeded the ability of hate-filled little people to logically handle them. The Democrats are now acting upon their emotions. And at the time when a real president is needed as the ultimate check of wisdom there is an empty old idiot. God help us all. And that is not a little statement, it is an earnest prayer.

Even if things return to something approaching normal WRT transition of power, the die is cast for the US, I think. Business depends on predictability and continuity. The wild swings back and forth between more liberty to act and less has a tendency to derail long range planning. Oil companies in particular are harmed by this, as they frequently have planning out a couple decades or longer.

Look at the chilling effect this administration had on oil when, on day 1, it put the kibosh on Keystone XL.