Politics

when you can install a machine that has a fraction of the long term legacy cost of a human (because the human expects too much for the task being asked to be completed), that never comes in late, never takes off early for a doctors appointment, doesnt sue you for wrongful termination after they purposefully take a shit in the middle of your office, etc..etc.. why would you ever hire another $24 an hour barista or burger flipper?
Automation is a whole different question and should have a big impact on immigration policy.

It's probably the reason that J.D. Vance and all of the fertility fetishists should relax a bit.
 
Automation is a whole different question and should have a big impact on immigration policy.

Concur..

While they havent figured out how to automate a ranch hand or a cabbage picker yet.. they have certainly figured out how to automate food service, janitorial services, and other unskilled and semi-skilled jobs.. its only a matter of time before a robot, a kiosk, or a terminal has the ability to replace the vast majority of the unskilled and semi skilled workforce..
 
Is that a problem with wages? or with the people though?

when state governments like California are declaring that flipping burgers at McDonalds must pay a minimum of $20 an hour.... and procliaming that every job should provide a "living wage" (without actually defining what "living" is)... how exactly does anyone afford to pay unskilled laborers that are going to work out in the weather, or in a hot factory, etc.. a wage that allows their product or service to be affordable and sellable to their customer base?

this is why companies are automating and taking the human factor out of the equation..

when you can install a machine that has a fraction of the long term legacy cost of a human (because the human expects too much for the task being asked to be completed), that never comes in late, never takes off early for a doctors appointment, doesnt sue you for wrongful termination after they purposefully take a shit in the middle of your office, etc..etc.. why would you ever hire another $24 an hour barista or burger flipper?
two different issues. Govt mandated minimum wages vs a worker determining what job they will do for what pay. If there’s a shortage of labour, obviously the shittiest jobs with the shittiest of pay are going to suffer (there’s that free market for you). Will you come and work your C-suite voodoo magic for my small electrical company for 100k Canadian? Obviously not, and that doesn’t make you lazy or entitled, you know your worth. Hell I wouldn’t go and wire houses for $40 an hour unless my life catastrophically imploded.

Look at the rigs, shitty conditions and hours, but good pay. There’s rarely a shortage of people willing to be a roughneck.
 
I grew up on a small cattle farm for my first eighteen years. I look back now and think how great a life it was. Dont get me wrong there was a lot of sweat, dirt, and worse. I remember cut gaine green out of a Hertford heifers broken leg on Christmas eve. Dehorning steers, and baling hay in 100 degree tempatures. Overall it was a good life. Dad eventually ran into hard times and sold the farm. I went into the Navy. I dont ever remember being rich but we never lacked for anything. I remember being so tired of eating steak. The farm got me in good shape for boot camp.

I really think you need to grow up in that type of life to understand it. I think reducing it to an hourly wage misses the point because not every month is a payday.
 
Many people will do the hardest or grossest of jobs if the pay is very good.

Look no further than skilled medicine. Podiatry and Proctology pay a lot better than the less-gross specialities. Everybody has their price in a society. If you're willing to create a large social safety net and under-bid the value of labor by importing the third world, every single job will be done for less because you've lowered the prevailing market wage.

A perfect example is the stereotype of residential roofers. In most areas, they are stormchasers of Hondurans and other central Americans. They largely displaced illegal Mexicans and Caucasian citizens with criminal records. The prices are so low, you cannot find legal, employable people to do the work. But what about commercial union roofers? Yeah, they have to be bonded, insured, and legal. Their wages are six-figure because of the barrier against illegal workers.

So, who is at fault here, the Mexican, Central or South American, or the local roofing company who is hiring these illegals, and paying them way below what the minimum pay should be for a roofer? Now, here where I live in GA, without them, it would be almost impossible to build a house. If burger flippers are demanding $20+ an hour, how much would a roofer, carpenter, brick layer should be paid?

There are ways to get good workers to do the job no one wants to do. Lane's here where I live have been doing it for years. They come in with their workers visa, they do their work, and after 11 months or so, they go home, to come back later. But some companies do not want to go through the hassle and hire the first one that comes along. If there were no "Illegal jobs" to be offered, we wouldn't have this issue.

When my mom immigrated into the US back in 1968, she was given a job to do (building mother boards for radios) with her green card, she didn't have a choice, she had to take the job if she wanted to come into the US. She didn't come to the US to become a parasite of the system, like we see now a days. God forbid if we did that now, what would that be call?

When I joined the military in 1983, I cleaned latrines, waxed the floors, used razor blades to remove excess wax from the floors, pickup cigarettes butts, mowed the lawn around the building I worked at, washed and waxed the General's car, and who knows what other manual labor I did. Try to do that with our new military. It's not going to happen. But now we pay contractors to do the work we did.

So, again, who is to blame here? Unfortunately, it's our system.
 
I grew up on a small cattle farm for my first eighteen years. I look back now and think how great a life it was. Dont get me wrong there was a lot of sweat, dirt, and worse. I remember cut gaine green out of a Hertford heifers broken leg on Christmas eve. Dehorning steers, and baling hay in 100 degree tempatures. Overall it was a good life. Dad eventually ran into hard times and sold the farm. I went into the Navy. I dont ever remember being rich but we never lacked for anything. I remember being so tired of eating steak. The farm got me in good shape for boot camp.

I really think you need to grow up in that type of life to understand it. I think reducing it to an hourly wage misses the point because not every month is a payday.
I wouldn’t trade growing up an a cattle/grain farm for anything, so I 100% agree with the first half of your post.

As for the second, if you don’t have anything to tie you to the farm (as an employee) then it is about the hourly wage.
 
I really think you need to grow up in that type of life to understand it. I think reducing it to an hourly wage misses the point because not every month is a payday.

It sounds much like the military honestly..

non one does it because the pay is great.. and certainly no one sticks with it for a career because they think they can retire wealthy...

its a lifestyle and a culture.. you do it for a little while and it becomes part of your identity and your ethos.. if you thrive in that world you enjoy it and always have fond memories regardless of the brutally hard work, long days, not so great pay, etc..etc..
 
I wouldn’t trade growing up an a cattle/grain farm for anything, so I 100% agree with the first half of your post.

As for the second, if you don’t have anything to tie you to the farm (as an employee) then it is about the hourly wage.
Thats why a lot of farms had large familys. More like clans. Why we knew everyone and they knew us. If they needed help we were there and so were they. It was a community. For most those times are over.
 
Thats why a lot of farms had large familys. More like clans. Why we knew everyone and they knew us. If they needed help we were there and so were they. It was a community. For most those times are over.
Now it’s big business
 
two different issues. Govt mandated minimum wages vs a worker determining what job they will do for what pay. If there’s a shortage of labour, obviously the shittiest jobs with the shittiest of pay are going to suffer (there’s that free market for you). Will you come and work your C-suite voodoo magic for my small electrical company for 100k Canadian? Obviously not, and that doesn’t make you lazy or entitled, you know your worth. Hell I wouldn’t go and wire houses for $40 an hour unless my life catastrophically imploded.

Look at the rigs, shitty conditions and hours, but good pay. There’s rarely a shortage of people willing to be a roughneck.

I agree that they are two different issues.. but I think there is a whole lot of overlap..

30 years ago people took a job at McDonalds as a burger flipper knowing full well that it wasnt going to buy them a 2000 sq foot house or put them in a late model vehicle.. they took the job knowing and understanding that it was either a "side" gig.. or that they'd need to do something in addition to the burger flipping to make ends meet.. its unskilled labor.. they'd need to graduate to something bigger and better (work their way up and become the GM? or hold onto the McD's job until they graduated from school and could demand a skilled or semi skilled labor job.. or hold onto the McD's job until they found something better, etc..)..

Today, the government has convinced the worker that even when working in unskilled labor positions that they are "worth" far more than they actually are.. and so they demand more than they are actually worth.. which results in companies offshoring, automating, and/or hiring immigrant labor that will do the job for what the job is actually worth..

I see a real problem with people confusing their value vs the value of a position they fill... I cant tell you how many times I've looked to hire someone with say 5 years of experience and a bachelors degree for XXXX wages.. only to have someone with a masters degree and 10 years of experience apply and then demand more money 6 months after they are hired..

well... you might be worth more.. but the position you fill isnt..

just because some high school grad thats 25 years old THINKS they are worth more (because CA tells them that at a minimum they are worth $20 an hour to flip burgers) doesnt mean they actually are.. and it certainly doesnt mean that unskilled labor should pay what they THINK they are worth vs what the task is actually worth..
 
My dad died in 2019 and went back to Michigan for his funeral. While back there my brothers and I decided to tour the area where we grew up. Talked to a lot of old family friends. Two things were evident 1) the old places we used to hunt now had houses on them. 2) all the small farms were gone and replaced with large feedlots and agricultural business. I know time moves on but damn it's hard to accept.
 
I agree that they are two different issues.. but I think there is a whole lot of overlap..

30 years ago people took a job at McDonalds as a burger flipper knowing full well that it wasnt going to buy them a 2000 sq foot house or put them in a late model vehicle.. they took the job knowing and understanding that it was either a "side" gig.. or that they'd need to do something in addition to the burger flipping to make ends meet.. its unskilled labor.. they'd need to graduate to something bigger and better (work their way up and become the GM? or hold onto the McD's job until they graduated from school and could demand a skilled or semi skilled labor job.. or hold onto the McD's job until they found something better, etc..)..

Today, the government has convinced the worker that even when working in unskilled labor positions that they are "worth" far more than they actually are.. and so they demand more than they are actually worth.. which results in companies offshoring, automating, and/or hiring immigrant labor that will do the job for what the job is actually worth..

I see a real problem with people confusing their value vs the value of a position they fill... I cant tell you how many times I've looked to hire someone with say 5 years of experience and a bachelors degree for XXXX wages.. only to have someone with a masters degree and 10 years of experience apply and then demand more money 6 months after they are hired..

well... you might be worth more.. but the position you fill isnt..

just because some high school grad thats 25 years old THINKS they are worth more (because CA tells them that at a minimum they are worth $20 an hour to flip burgers) doesnt mean they actually are.. and it certainly doesnt mean that unskilled labor should pay what they THINK they are worth vs what the task is actually worth..
I agree with everything you say here. Just because someone thinks they are worth more doesn’t mean they are. BUT, if they find a job that pays what they want, I guess they were justified in their valuation, and the opposite holds true as well. It costs money to find good, reliable workers, and generally the companies complaining about not getting good people aren’t getting them for a reason.
 
My dad died in 2019 and went back to Michigan for his funeral. While back there my brothers and I decided to tour the area where we grew up. Talked to a lot of old family friends. Two things were evident 1) the old places we used to hunt now had houses on them. 2) all the small farms were gone and replaced with large feedlots and agricultural business. I know time moves on but damn it's hard to accept.
“Progress”
 
That's why CA is making farm automation illegal so people would be forced to hire illegals (future Democratic voters).

The problem is they'll get those additional voters.. who ultimately will be unemployed and living off the state tit.. because they'll render their agriculture industry non competitive and farms will start to go under..

its not like almonds (CA's biggest crop) cant be grown elsewhere.. same with grapes and lettuce..

granted CA has some great soil and nearly perfect weather for what its farmers grow..

but if those farmers cant compete, they'll either go elsewhere.. or theyll be run out of business.. its a pretty simple equation... if farms in other parts of the US are automating.. and farms in other countries have cheaper labor and/or are automating.. there will come a time that CA simply cant produce goods at a price consumers are willing to pay (same reason you see big tech fleeing NorCal like crazy right now.. its simply become cost prohibitive and difficult to compete when you can do the same work in Austin or Boston much cheaper..
 
Concur.. While they havent figured out how to automate a ranch hand or a cabbage picker yet.. they have certainly figured out how to automate food service, janitorial services, and other unskilled and semi-skilled jobs.. its only a matter of time before a robot, a kiosk, or a terminal has the ability to replace the vast majority of the unskilled and semi skilled workforce..
Concur.. While they havent figured out how to automate a ranch hand or a cabbage picker yet.. they have certainly figured out how to automate food service, janitorial services, and other unskilled and semi-skilled jobs.. its only a matter of time before a robot, a kiosk, or a terminal has the ability to replace the vast majority of the unskilled and semi skilled workforce..

There is some automated equipment that has made it into the sod harvesting world.
Automated sod stacking machines that only need a driver and a forklift driver to move pallets out of the way. Before it took a driver, 2 stackers and a lift driver. Eliminating 2 jobs.
 
Thoughts on "memorandum of agreement ". To me it looks pretty week.
 
Pursuant to our discussion about need for immigration reform:

I just learned what the USA, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, and the Netherlands have in common?

In all of those countries, which group has the highest welfare assistance rates of immigrant groups? Somalis.

I'm dumbfounded.
 

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Huntforever wrote on dhoover's profile.
You’re the 2nd person on this thread from Arkansas. I live in Benton.

Do you hunt out of state much?
 
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