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Ray B

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Conservatives have a positive message and they should deliver it that way.


That's not going to happen when the media is controlled by elitist liberals and anyone that says differently is banned and prosecuted. President trump is compared to Hitler, well there isn't much difference between that moon-face clown that runs Google and Joe Goebbels
 

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139060338_10157959543100914_4378834406829738672_o.jpg
 

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BSO Dave

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"Passive" or what? Exactly?

I started to type an angry retort, but that would be as counterproductive as too much of what we have done the last couple of months. So, let's unpack this a little bit.
An angry retort for what reason? :E Confused:

With all due respect, I was sincerely appealing to you to see if recent events had changed your perspective on the way forward assuming that there is one. If you took my question as facetious or sarcastic, that was not how it was intended...

My use of the term "passive" was not meant to suggest violence as the alternative.... The notion of a literal "civil war" has been discussed here before, and between you and I specifically. You dismissed the notion on several levels and I agreed with most of those arguments. I certainly don't condone violence or welcome such a grim prospect for this republic. I have made the argument that although I agreed that we would not see violent conflict in the form of two opposing red and blue armies facing off across some battlefield, the likelihood of seeing random, scattered, violent conflicts pitting neighbor against neighbor may already be a foregone conclusion.

I formed that opinion well before the election. The subsequent events that we has seen transpire here just in the last several days unfortunately do not relieve my concerns. The violence that we have seen over the summer has been erased by the hypocrisy of the left. It's as if it never even happened... Insane as that is, we have a whole new level of insanity to endure. The hypocrisy and hyperbolic rhetoric of the summer is relatively benign compared to what has now transformed into the most divisive and incendiary hate speech we have ever experienced from the left. When the POTUS-elect and the Speaker of the House condemn 74 million Americans as domestic terrorists and racists we have now surpassed surpassed sanity and rational thought for the surreal. When the POTUS-elect and the Speaker of the House are the very ones pouring gasoline on the flames, who then exactly is going to lower the temperature?

As if the violence and destruction of the summer riots wasn't bad enough, now major corporations are forcing the closure of businesses who they deem political enemies. Real people are getting blacklisted and fired.. So, in all sincerity, please forgive my skepticism when I hear the suggestions of "hard political work" as the solution. It may indeed be the long-term answer, but what about the next several days, weeks, and months? While real damage is being inflicted to real people, I am sure they will find comfort to know that conservatives will be hard at work flipping state house seats in the next election cycle. I appreciate your view of looking at long-term solutions, but I believe we agree that we lost our last line of political defense when we lost the Senate. An awful lot of irrevocable damage is and will continue to be done while we wait for a political tide to switch. Regardless, none of this addresses the polarization or animosity among the citizenry which will continue to be the source of any future violence. Elections have only proven to be more divisive.
 

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With all due and considerable respect to @Red Leg , if civil strife comes here, I think it will more resemble SE Europe of the 1990s than 1930s Spain. We have become quite Balkanized in our own right here, and will only get worse as Critical Theory (Cynical Theory) grows deeper roots.
 

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Real people are getting blacklisted and fired..
Companies, schools, universities, etc. can get away with this this sort of conduct because the left is united and can bring their numbers to bear on those who don’t toe their line. Most (not all, granted) businesses just want to make money, not take sides in political disputes, but if enough pressure is brought to bear, they will take sides. Conservatives have tended to be a more live and let live group, so haven’t done that (seen any left wing speakers ‘deplatformed’ lately?).

Amazon was founded and is operated on the most rapacious and monopolistic tendencies if ever a company was, but the CEO - who capitalism allowed to become the (now) second richest person in the world - is a champion of liberal causes (And the CEO is the owner of the Washington Post). How many of us are prepared to stop using Amazon? Not enough to matter.
 

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Companies, schools, universities, etc. can get away with this this sort of conduct because the left is united and can bring their numbers to bear on those who don’t toe their line. Most (not all, granted) businesses just want to make money, not take sides in political disputes, but if enough pressure is brought to bear, they will take sides. Conservatives have tended to be a more live and let live group, so haven’t done that (seen any left wing speakers ‘deplatformed’ lately?).

Amazon was founded and is operated on the most rapacious and monopolistic tendencies if ever a company was, but the CEO - who capitalism allowed to become the (now) second richest person in the world - is a champion of liberal causes (And the CEO is the owner of the Washington Post). How many of us are prepared to stop using Amazon? Not enough to matter.

The left is "united" at the moment because life is still easy, and stuff is relatively abundant. If/when things get a bit harder, and stuff gets more scarce, they will turn on each other, as they have always done. And there is no fight like the fight between leftist rivals. Example #1: NAZI Germany vs USSR.
 

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Looks like Uganda is taking steps against Facebook and Twitter for election interference. I know nothing about the details.

Uganda Just Nuked Facebook And Twitter For Election Interference, And Twitter Is Having A Meltdown Over It



What's good for the goose is... oh never mind.





Twitter Public Policy

@Policy

·
4h

Ahead of the Ugandan election, we're hearing reports that Internet service providers are being ordered to block social media and messaging apps. We strongly condemn internet shutdowns – they are hugely harmful, violate basic human rights and the principles of the #OpenInternet.
 

Wishfulthinker580

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"Passive" or what? Exactly?

I started to type an angry retort, but that would be as counterproductive as too much of what we have done the last couple of months. So, let's unpack this a little bit.

First of all, we have people on this site espousing or intimating the whole "blood of patriots" thing in every third post. Many, if not most of whom, have never smelled a whiff of real combat. So I would ask where do those who shout this counter productive nonsense want to build their barricades? Against whom do they take up arms? Should they bayonet their registered democrat neighbor? Perhaps their child or grandchild's young idealistic school teacher? Burn down the nearest university? Maybe overrun the town courthouse or city hall - after all, that technique has certainly worked out well for us following the lunacy at the capitol. What specific violent actions would make a positive change?

And unlike 1860, it's not like a region can secede. "Red" Texas, for instance, is only red by about 8% on a really good day. Any actual conflict in this country would look far more like the Spanish Civil War than the American War Between the States. Most of my fellow travelers are relatively ignorant about history. I would urge all the chest thumpers to make an exception and to actually study how that worked out for the average Spaniard in the thirties.

Right now, if Gallup is to be believed, Trump still has 48% approval rating. Pelosi is currently 14%. AOC is around 25%. No one takes Biden very seriously. We still have a solid, deployable political base that can win congressional and presidential elections. What we need is good leadership to focus that base.

Trump was a flawed vessel for that task. The disruption he initially caused will likely pay real dividends if we don't throw it away in the near future. However, despite his accurate bureaucratic perceptions and broad national vision, he also demonstrated an unfathomable capacity for isolating political allies while making enemies of almost everyone else. Only Trump could stand by mutely while his followers called someone like Pense a traitor; a man who staunchly supported the President at every turn except when asked to violate his oath and understanding of the constitution. Like Sam Houston, I am confident history will judge the Vice President very favorably indeed. And only Trump could make the post election period so much about himself, that his own followers forgot, ignored, and most tragically, boycotted the GA elections.

But here we are. As we speak, House of Representative redistricting is about to kick off in many states. Republican down ballot success in statehouse races in November puts that opportunity squarely in Republican hands. Our first goal must be to expand that statehouse success and kick Nancy Pelosi's leadership to the curb in 2024 by winning the house. If the new administration oversteps its "mandate" as badly as I expect and it already indicates it will, there is every chance we can win back the senate as well. I mean only Democrats could be so stupid as to fundamentally and perhaps permanently antagonize nearly half the electorate.

Get back the House, and real election reform has a chance of being proposed. Hint, some smart men and women ought to run on the notion. We have a winning message in most corners of the country where a majority of Americans still believe in opportunity, free enterprise, fairness and capitalism. They love this country and want to be on our side.

What I fear, is that instead of committing ourselves to that hard work and effort, a relatively small minority on the right will do stupid things in the coming weeks. If it happens, that 48% approval will evaporate quickly, and our enemies will be emboldened to take even stronger measures to "fundamentally change" America.

We can either do that hard political work, or we can sit around and bitch while fantasizing about forcibly creating some right wing totalitarian state where no democrat will ever be allowed to vote or think or say "wrong" things again. After all, that sort of totalitarian solution has to be the end result doesn't it, if we are unwilling to win politically?

And I really don't want to hear, that winning elections is impossible because the democrats cheat. Of course they cheat. I have no doubt that fraud took place in this election. I also have no doubt there was insufficient fraud to be decisive with respect to the results. Trump's lawyers had no traction with those allegations and plenty of republican appointed or elected officials had opportunity to review them. And they weren't all "traitors." Either the evidence wasn't there - do some of your own research on this Dominion red herring - or the President's lawyers were incompetent.

What we need to do is rededicate ourselves to winning elections. What actually would be useful at this point would be a republican congressional election strategy that exploited mail-in voting.
I did not serve and therefore have no combat experience and I do not know how I would behave in said combat.

We are all Americans and we are all equal. Lack of service or combat experience should not be grounds for dismissal of a view or opinion. Now whether that opinion is insane or not is another discussion.

I wonder how many of the folks who took or are taking part (and served or are serving honorably) in the various wars in our history and to this present day, either called for or held a favorable opinion of said various wars before they entered the service? I wonder how many people simply dismissed their opinions at the time because of their lack of service or combat experience?

Anyone with a brain or any sense at all knows that civil wars are horrific, tragic, terrible affairs but sometimes they are necessary. If a civil war happens here it could lead to the death of millions and, like you say, it would indeed be brother against brother and it would be in our states, our cities, our neighborhoods and our homes. Again I say that however awful a civil war may be, sometimes they are necessary. I’m sure there are more than a few on this forum who know their history as well and have probably come to the conclusion that a war may be necessary. By the way some of us knew about the Spanish Civil War before you brought it up in this post or earlier ones.

I mean no disrespect at all to any current or former military man or woman.
 

Brent in Az

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"Passive" or what? Exactly?

I started to type an angry retort, but that would be as counterproductive as too much of what we have done the last couple of months. So, let's unpack this a little bit.

First of all, we have people on this site espousing or intimating the whole "blood of patriots" thing in every third post. Many, if not most of whom, have never smelled a whiff of real combat. So I would ask where do those who shout this counter productive nonsense want to build their barricades? Against whom do they take up arms? Should they bayonet their registered democrat neighbor? Perhaps their child or grandchild's young idealistic school teacher? Burn down the nearest university? Maybe overrun the town courthouse or city hall - after all, that technique has certainly worked out well for us following the lunacy at the capitol. What specific violent actions would make a positive change?

And unlike 1860, it's not like a region can secede. "Red" Texas, for instance, is only red by about 8% on a really good day. Any actual conflict in this country would look far more like the Spanish Civil War than the American War Between the States. Most of my fellow travelers are relatively ignorant about history. I would urge all the chest thumpers to make an exception and to actually study how that worked out for the average Spaniard in the thirties.

Right now, if Gallup is to be believed, Trump still has 48% approval rating. Pelosi is currently 14%. AOC is around 25%. No one takes Biden very seriously. We still have a solid, deployable political base that can win congressional and presidential elections. What we need is good leadership to focus that base.

Trump was a flawed vessel for that task. The disruption he initially caused will likely pay real dividends if we don't throw it away in the near future. However, despite his accurate bureaucratic perceptions and broad national vision, he also demonstrated an unfathomable capacity for isolating political allies while making enemies of almost everyone else. Only Trump could stand by mutely while his followers called someone like Pense a traitor; a man who staunchly supported the President at every turn except when asked to violate his oath and understanding of the constitution. Like Sam Houston, I am confident history will judge the Vice President very favorably indeed. And only Trump could make the post election period so much about himself, that his own followers forgot, ignored, and most tragically, boycotted the GA elections.

But here we are. As we speak, House of Representative redistricting is about to kick off in many states. Republican down ballot success in statehouse races in November puts that opportunity squarely in Republican hands. Our first goal must be to expand that statehouse success and kick Nancy Pelosi's leadership to the curb in 2024 by winning the house. If the new administration oversteps its "mandate" as badly as I expect and it already indicates it will, there is every chance we can win back the senate as well. I mean only Democrats could be so stupid as to fundamentally and perhaps permanently antagonize nearly half the electorate.

Get back the House, and real election reform has a chance of being proposed. Hint, some smart men and women ought to run on the notion. We have a winning message in most corners of the country where a majority of Americans still believe in opportunity, free enterprise, fairness and capitalism. They love this country and want to be on our side.

What I fear, is that instead of committing ourselves to that hard work and effort, a relatively small minority on the right will do stupid things in the coming weeks. If it happens, that 48% approval will evaporate quickly, and our enemies will be emboldened to take even stronger measures to "fundamentally change" America.

We can either do that hard political work, or we can sit around and bitch while fantasizing about forcibly creating some right wing totalitarian state where no democrat will ever be allowed to vote or think or say "wrong" things again. After all, that sort of totalitarian solution has to be the end result doesn't it, if we are unwilling to win politically?

And I really don't want to hear, that winning elections is impossible because the democrats cheat. Of course they cheat. I have no doubt that fraud took place in this election. I also have no doubt there was insufficient fraud to be decisive with respect to the results. Trump's lawyers had no traction with those allegations and plenty of republican appointed or elected officials had opportunity to review them. And they weren't all "traitors." Either the evidence wasn't there - do some of your own research on this Dominion red herring - or the President's lawyers were incompetent.

What we need to do is rededicate ourselves to winning elections. What actually would be useful at this point would be a republican congressional election strategy that exploited mail-in voting.
So you decided on a condescending retort, instead of an angry one...eh?

Nice job. I wish I had a soap box as big as yours.

We will all be dead and buried before any political rededication occurs within the Republican party. The Democrats have figured out how to game the system, and the media lapdogs are the firewall.

Old white GOP swamp dwellers in charge have killed the party. They are 2 sides of the same corrupt coin. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Democrats have gone full on ruthless and evil. They will continue to refine what they are doing, and they won't quit, until they have their Jackboots placed firmly on everyone's neck. The GOP does not have the fortitude, as there are only a hand full of fighters in the party willing to fall on their swords (Fellow blood patriots, and chest thumpers)

This country will be a one party system within a decade. The Democrats are laughing at us.
 

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My decision to "ignore" capt RedLegs continues to be affirmed. I think the problem that he has with dealing with other views is that his perspective is so narrow and various words are so specifically defined that he has difficulty seeing value in differing perspectives and definitions. It's sad when someone has been a hammer for so long that everything looks like a nail.

Speaking of condescending.

Might want to read what you wrote again, then go look in a mirror. See who you see.
 

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You should of seen that coming a month ago when he wouldn't push the $2000 payment that Trump wanted.

He has actually been distancing himself from Trump for quite a while now.
 

Red Leg

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You should of seen that coming a month ago when he wouldn't push the $2000 payment that Trump wanted.

He has actually been distancing himself from Trump for quite a while now.
Trump's designated negotiators worked out the $600 dollar agreement with the republican and house leadership. Both Loeffler and Perdue came out in support of that agreement because that is what Trump wanted. Then, out of nowhere Trump goes full Bernie saying it should be $2000 undermining McConnel and both candidates in GA where that sort of disconnect resonated in Fulton county. Any wonder he might be upset?
 

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Trump's designated negotiators worked out the $600 dollar agreement with the republican and house leadership. Both Loeffler and Perdue came out in support of that agreement because that is what Trump wanted. Then, out of nowhere Trump goes full Bernie saying it should be $2000 undermining McConnel and both candidates in GA where that sort of disconnect resonated in Fulton county. Any wonder he might be upset?
That was a bad bill, too much pork...I dont think giving out free money to Americans is the answer either (see Dr. Rand Pauls speech) but if we are going to run up the deficit in the name of COVID relief it should be focused on American families. I guess we could also open up the economy and help families but there is no grifting in that.

Loeffler could have came out and said she supported it. Purdue could have shown up to a debate. They ran possibly the worse runoff campaigns that I can think of on top of being two horrible candidates (they are exactly likeable). I think the RNC spent 284 million dollars and didn't have a ground game, or a mail in game and or a get out the vote effort. If everyone who voted for Purdue in Nov did so In January, he wins in a landslide. As I told my wife no matter what happens in politics never underestimate the ability of Republicans to screw it up. Sorry for the vent there, but Georgia pisses me off.
 

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Regardless of one’s views about any given controversial issue or situation, censorship of those views is a VERY slippery slope to go down. Whom or what entity is legally justified in censoring those views? What I’m seeing now (and for sometime) are media corporations deciding who and what should be censored on their media platforms according to their collective views. Just as some countries have fined Big Tech massively for engaging in monopolizing business practices, the same might be done to those companies who engage in rampant censorship of opposing views according to the COURTS in all affected countries? Guess I’m just naive, but looking for answers like many of you.
 

Red Leg

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I did not serve and therefore have no combat experience and I do not know how I would behave in said combat.

We are all Americans and we are all equal. Lack of service or combat experience should not be grounds for dismissal of a view or opinion. Now whether that opinion is insane or not is another discussion.

I wonder how many of the folks who took or are taking part (and served or are serving honorably) in the various wars in our history and to this present day, either called for or held a favorable opinion of said various wars before they entered the service? I wonder how many people simply dismissed their opinions at the time because of their lack of service or combat experience?

Anyone with a brain or any sense at all knows that civil wars are horrific, tragic, terrible affairs but sometimes they are necessary. If a civil war happens here it could lead to the death of millions and, like you say, it would indeed be brother against brother and it would be in our states, our cities, our neighborhoods and our homes. Again I say that however awful a civil war may be, sometimes they are necessary. I’m sure there are more than a few on this forum who know their history as well and have probably come to the conclusion that a war may be necessary. By the way some of us knew about the Spanish Civil War before you brought it up in this post or earlier ones.

I mean no disrespect at all to any current or former military man or woman.
So you decided on a condescending retort, instead of an angry one...eh?

Nice job. I wish I had a soap box as big as yours.

We will all be dead and buried before any political rededication occurs within the Republican party. The Democrats have figured out how to game the system, and the media lapdogs are the firewall.

Old white GOP swamp dwellers in charge have killed the party. They are 2 sides of the same corrupt coin. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Democrats have gone full on ruthless and evil. They will continue to refine what they are doing, and they won't quit, until they have their Jackboots placed firmly on everyone's neck. The GOP does not have the fortitude, as there are only a hand full of fighters in the party willing to fall on their swords (Fellow blood patriots, and chest thumpers)

This country will be a one party system within a decade. The Democrats are laughing at us.
If I sounded condescending, then I truly regret it. However, a life-long personal observation (and I am hardly the only one) is that old men and young boys who cry out for and justify violence and revolution tend never to have seen it. If that implies a certain lack of patience or consideration for those views then I am probably guilty as charged.

If I have found few people in my lifetime with whom I could have an extended discussion about the causes and consequences of the Spanish Civil War, that no doubt influenced the phrasing of my comments about it. Assuming you are both familiar with the period, then I will gladly debate the merits of doing everything in our power to prevent a similar catastrophe in our own country.

I am not sure what you mean by soap box. This forum would seem to be a rather tiny one. If on the other hand you mean I seem overly sure of my opinions, then fine. Please inform all of us of another practical course of action we should take. I am all ears.

When I used the expression "the blood of patriots," I assumed anyone reading it would know that I was referring to Jefferson's statement "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Lately, a number of the radical right organizations have been tossing the phrase around way too freely implying with it a license to commit violence. I think there are any number of conservatives and republicans who are willing fight politically with all their might for the future of this country. You will not find a single elected official who thinks violence or civil war is the answer.

But the future you both articulate is, unfortunately, absolutely possible. It can be stopped in its tracks politically. But that will take time and hard work. And we have regressed in that hard work enormously over the last 60 days. The good news is that we already have the numbers, and the ability to grow them. The question now is whether or not we are willing to get back to work.

I am worried sick about the future of my country. I have come to believe Trump has done our cause enormous harm since the election. It is becoming ever clearer that he ran the wrong campaign. Voter day turnout was not enough (wasn't in the GA runoff either) to overcome the mail-in wave. It also was obvious to anyone with any political experience that multiple state certifications would never be overturned. Trump has been unwilling to accept that, and has been happy to tear his party apart as part of his frustration. The most incomprehensible thing to me was when he tweeted on Dec 26th “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th, Be there, will be wild!” What did he think would happen? Naturally, the democrats have been all too thrilled to take advantage of the chaos. I just pray God we get through the next few weeks without further marginalizing what should be mainstream American thought.
 
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lwaters

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I don't think anything will happen. There may be a few instances of some militia or far right group causing some problems. Most Trump supporters are law abiding people and I don't think they're stupid enough to take their ar and head to a state capital. Who knows what nut case group could be there. It could be antifa it could be white supremist. These cowards will do nothing unless there is a large crowd they think they can melt into. A couple Bradley's vehicles will take care of any problems.
 

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uplander01 wrote on colorado's profile.
Heard you may have load data for the 500 Jeffery,.....any info would be appreciated. Was thinking 535gr, but already had a response that the 570gr would be a better way to go, not sure why.
Rickmt wrote on Leica Sport Optics's profile.
will Leica Amplus 6-2.5x15x50 fit on a pro success Blaser with low mount?
 
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