Politics

[Altitude sickness]

Full disclosure. the CIA denies the NYT accusations.

 

[Red Leg]

This provides a good summary of the uniformed training effort in Ukraine prior to 2022. There were corresponding "non-uniform" and contractor efforts. None of this was a secret and all of it was left out of the article. There was never an attempt to establish "bases" that would have been some sort of threat to Russia. NATO membership obviously would come with NATO bases. But as I noted, Finland has made that concern somewhat irrelevant.

JMTGU

 

[Datchew]

Obviously, the dollar amount spent is off, but the overall message is correct.
The CIA definitely provoked Russia to come across the border.

CIA in Ukraine: Why is this not seen as provocation?

An explosive new NYT report shows how Washington needlessly fed into Russia’s worst fears and precipitated the invasion, justified or not

responsiblestatecraft.org

No doubt.

For some time now they've really become the business development department of the military industrial complex.

And before people jump in trying to push a false narrative of being a "neo-isolationist," it's perfectly possible to be against the grift war in Ukraine and still support looking after interests abroad.

We're not in the cold war anymore.

It's also not neo-isolationist to simply disagree with others opinions on what constitutes our interests.

 

[Brent in Az]

It is not a state secret that he likes to play golf when he is in Florida at his club. Many social media posts about it. Supposedly the suspect scouted the location in day(s) prior. Not everything is a conspiracy.

The Federal agencies are compromised. Conspiracies abound.

 

[Tanks]

Damn that Biden/Harris economy...

Dow flirts with record amid revived hopes for jumbo Fed cut

Wall Street finished a winning week as bets of a 50-basis point rate cut jumped.

nypost.com

Dow closes at all-time high as stocks jump ahead of crucial Fed rate decision

Markets have been in a bull run since the start of this year on expectations the Fed would kick off its monetary policy easing cycle soon.

nypost.com

Before y'all say that means nothing, what's good for goose is good for gander...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/24/trump-brags-about-dow-30000-at-surprise-press-conference-leaves-after-a-minute.html?msockid=37fe710609c7684b23ea653408ad6942

From the article above:

“I just want to congratulate everybody. The stock market, Dow Jones Industrial Average just hit 30,000, which is the highest in history,” Trump said in the briefing room.

“We’ve never broken 30,000, and that’s despite everything that’s taken place with the pandemic.”

“The stock market’s just broken 30,000 — never been broken, that number. That’s a sacred number, 30,000, and nobody thought they’d ever see it,” Trump said.

“I just want to congratulate all the people within the administration that worked so hard, and most importantly I want to congratulate the people of our country, because there are no people like you. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.”

 

[Ed Lally]

His first term has nothing to do with it. It is a different world and challenge now. I can only go by what Vance has said recently and Trump alluded to previously (see my post previously for the exact quote), which is to force Ukraine to capitulate to Russia.


I know prices on some consumer goods have gone up. Some have stayed about the same. Economic indicators though, show improvement.

I went through my Amazon purchases for the last 8 years. 24 3oz can of cat food was $35.76 on Jan. 2017, $35.76 on Jan. 2021 and $37.99 today. Price on a lot of items have not changed much over the years.

You really had to dig deep to prove your point. Cat food!! are you kidding me. I eat beef, pork, chicken, vegetables, cereal, milk, eggs and scotch. I'm not concerned about the cost of scotch but everything else has gone up an average of over 23% thanks to Biden/Harris. Maybe I will have to start eating cat food to make ends meet, or cats?

 

[Red Leg]

No doubt.

For some time now they've really become the business development department of the military industrial complex.

And before people jump in trying to push a false narrative of being a "neo-isolationist," it's perfectly possible to be against the grift war in Ukraine and still support looking after interests abroad.

We're not in the cold war anymore.

It's also not neo-isolationist to simply disagree with others opinions on what constitutes our interests.

I won't, but I will suggest some additional information on the subject would be valuable before trotting out the left's old military industrial complex red herring.

As I noted, the US has allocated something less than 200 billion USD for Ukraine for a three-year period. I noted that a significant portion of that investment is materiel in kind rather than new expenditures. Let's be generous and say there is still 1OO billion in unspent dollars. Of that 100 billion, around 60 or 70 goes to humanitarian and State Department initiatives. That leaves 30-40 billion in potential contracts over three years. Lockheed Martin has a market cap of 136 billion USD and annual sales of around 70 billion. Northrop Grumman has a market cap of 76 billion USD and annual sales of approximately 40 billion. General Dynamics has a market cap of 84 billion USD and annual sales of around 44 billion.

30-40 billion over three years divided among twenty or thirty defense suppliers is interesting, but really doesn't move the needle for the US defense industry. Their focus is primarily major end items for the US Armed forces which has an annual budget of almost 900 billion USD. This whole notion of a defense industry supporting, or more ridiculously causing a war in Ukraine to make money is simply farcical.

 

[Tanks]

This whole notion of a defense industry supporting, or more ridiculously causing a war in Ukraine to make money is simply farcical.

But, but that's not what is said on Newsmax or Truth social so must be wrong.

 

[Saul]

All of this talk about war profiteering and CIA conspiracies sounds like a Jill Stein speech. I wonder if their is anything else she and MAGA have in common?

 

[Joker12]

Damn that Biden/Harris economy...

Dow flirts with record amid revived hopes for jumbo Fed cut

Wall Street finished a winning week as bets of a 50-basis point rate cut jumped.

nypost.com

Dow closes at all-time high as stocks jump ahead of crucial Fed rate decision

Markets have been in a bull run since the start of this year on expectations the Fed would kick off its monetary policy easing cycle soon.

nypost.com

Before y'all say that means nothing, what's good for goose is good for gander...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/24/trump-brags-about-dow-30000-at-surprise-press-conference-leaves-after-a-minute.html?msockid=37fe710609c7684b23ea653408ad6942

From the article above:

If I'm the gander allow me to say that it certainly is not good for me and many others!

 

[Datchew]

I won't, but I will suggest some additional information on the subject would be valuable before trotting out the left's old military industrial complex red herring.

As I noted, the US has allocated something less than 200 billion USD for Ukraine for a three-year period. I noted that a significant portion of that investment is materiel in kind rather than new expenditures. Let's be generous and say there is still 1OO billion in unspent dollars. Of that 100 billion, around 60 or 70 goes to humanitarian and State Department initiatives. That leaves 30-40 billion in potential contracts over three years. Lockheed Martin has a market cap of 136 billion USD and annual sales of around 70 billion. Northrop Grumman has a market cap of 76 billion USD and annual sales of approximately 40 billion. General Dynamics has a market cap of 84 billion USD and annual sales of around 44 billion.

30-40 billion over three years divided among twenty or thirty defense suppliers is interesting, but really doesn't move the needle for the US defense industry. Their focus is primarily major end items for the US Armed forces which has an annual budget of almost 900 billion USD. This whole notion of a defense industry supporting, or more ridiculously causing a war in Ukraine to make money is simply farcical.

2 parts if you'll pardon me for being long winded.

Part 1:
You make a good point that the left was classically the ones talking about the military industrial complex.
It's been a weird few decades that got us to where that seems to be reversed now. In very broad brush, the left have become the party of constant war.

A couple other odd points
- Clinton made a deal with Putin for uranium and cash flowed to the clinton foundation but now she's constantly harping about the russians.
- The democrats used to LOVE the USSR. That drunken Kennedy (Ted I think) used to make several trips over there, as did our mad-scientist-looking Vermont governor.
- Now suddenly Russia is the bad guy and public enemy number 1.

Strange turn of bedfellows.

Part 2:
I guess I thought the term military industrial complex was commonly understood but I'll define my terms with the expectation that several of us probably won't agree.

Your numbers included the state department and the big publicly traded companies but didn't include:
our military spend
CIA (good luck getting clean numbers there)
NSA
FBI (we probably have WIDE differences in views on how much they're involved in statecraft)
Don't forget NATO
Then there's the secret squirrel pallets of cash to 3rd party actors to "influence" things as well as "aid" money that isn't really aid money.

The point is not to quibble over numbers, which I didn't bring up. That's a distraction.

The point is (at least my point) we are no longer involved in a respectable act of looking out for interests abroad.
Instead, we're using the military industrial complex to drive influence for financial gain and political control and doing so with frightening stripes of globalist nihilism idiocy.

The carrot is something along the lines of getting to join the Nato boy's club with access to the toys that go with it (you didn't mention all the Nato countries' spend numbers on American weapons tech in your numbers) and the stick being a color revolution, overthrow, ruination, war, and likely exile or death of the leader that doesn't want to play ball.

 

[DillonG]

Why was Trump’s OTR movement known by an out-of-town shooter, who knew exactly where to position for a shot? Is there a mole inside the USSS? I’m not trying to start a conspiracy discussion. It seems like a logical question to ask. The “lone gunman” arguments are becoming redundant from the MSM.

 

[WAB]

Key learning after reading the last few pages of this thread: I need to invest in tinfoil production!

 

[Tanks]

If I'm the gander allow me to say that it certainly is not good for me and many others!

My point was if a 30K Dow was a sign of great accomplishment and great economy for Trump (his words), then a 41.6K Dow is the same for Biden.

Fed is lowering the rates due to positive economic indicators.

 

[Hunt anything]

Damn that Biden/Harris economy...

Dow flirts with record amid revived hopes for jumbo Fed cut

Wall Street finished a winning week as bets of a 50-basis point rate cut jumped.

nypost.com

Dow closes at all-time high as stocks jump ahead of crucial Fed rate decision

Markets have been in a bull run since the start of this year on expectations the Fed would kick off its monetary policy easing cycle soon.

nypost.com

Before y'all say that means nothing, what's good for goose is good for gander...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/24/trump-brags-about-dow-30000-at-surprise-press-conference-leaves-after-a-minute.html?msockid=37fe710609c7684b23ea653408ad6942

From the article above:

But how much is a dollar worth today as compared to 2020?

 

[Red Leg]

2 parts if you'll pardon me for being long winded.

Part 1:
You make a good point that the left was classically the ones talking about the military industrial complex.
It's been a weird few decades that got us to where that seems to be reversed now. In very broad brush, the left have become the party of constant war.

A couple other odd points
- Clinton made a deal with Putin for uranium and cash flowed to the clinton foundation but now she's constantly harping about the russians.
- The democrats used to LOVE the USSR. That drunken Kennedy (Ted I think) used to make several trips over there, as did our mad-scientist-looking Vermont governor.
- Now suddenly Russia is the bad guy and public enemy number 1.

Strange turn of bedfellows.

Part 2:
I guess I thought the term military industrial complex was commonly understood but I'll define my terms with the expectation that several of us probably won't agree.

Your numbers included the state department and the big publicly traded companies but didn't include:
our military spend
CIA (good luck getting clean numbers there)
NSA
FBI (we probably have WIDE differences in views on how much they're involved in statecraft)
Don't forget NATO
Then there's the secret squirrel pallets of cash to 3rd party actors to "influence" things as well as "aid" money that isn't really aid money.

The point is not to quibble over numbers, which I didn't bring up. That's a distraction.

The point is (at least my point) we are no longer involved in a respectable act of looking out for interests abroad.
Instead, we're using the military industrial complex to drive influence for financial gain and political control and doing so with frightening stripes of globalist nihilism idiocy.

The carrot is something along the lines of getting to join the Nato boy's club with access to the toys that go with it (you didn't mention all the Nato countries' spend numbers on American weapons tech in your numbers) and the stick being a color revolution, overthrow, ruination, war, and likely exile or death of the leader that doesn't want to play ball.

It is all about numbers and those pesky things called facts and not supposition. If not that, then anyone can claim anything. Which of course happens right and left every hour of the day. Newsmax, MSNBC, and this forum are examples.

 

[Tanks]

But how much is a dollar worth today as compared to 2020?

$100 in 2017 was worth 110.55 in 2021. Cumulative inflation of 10.55%
$100 in 2021 is worth 116.17 in 2024. Cumulative inflation of 16.17%.

Dow was 30K in 2021 and 41.6K today a 38.7% increase. I’d call it a win at more than double the inflation numbers.

 

[ActionBob]

Damn that Biden/Harris economy...

Dow flirts with record amid revived hopes for jumbo Fed cut

Wall Street finished a winning week as bets of a 50-basis point rate cut jumped.

nypost.com

Dow closes at all-time high as stocks jump ahead of crucial Fed rate decision

Markets have been in a bull run since the start of this year on expectations the Fed would kick off its monetary policy easing cycle soon.

nypost.com

Before y'all say that means nothing, what's good for goose is good for gander...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/24/trump-brags-about-dow-30000-at-surprise-press-conference-leaves-after-a-minute.html?msockid=37fe710609c7684b23ea653408ad6942

From the article above:

It is doing all this under Trump's tax plan.... just saying

 

[Hunt anything]

$100 in 2017 was worth 110.55 in 2021. Cumulative inflation of 10.55%
$100 in 2021 is worth 116.17 in 2024. Cumulative inflation of 16.17%.

Dow was 30K in 2021 and 41.6K today a 38.7% increase. I’d call it a win at more than double the inflation numbers.

I can’t see that, I can’t buy today for 10$ what I could buy for 10$ in 2020. I got a 15% raise in 2024 , we have not changed our lifestyle at all but we could not afford a vacation this year. I may not have asked the right question but to me that is fact and all of the numbers won’t change my mind.
True that my 401K has improved as have our other investments which is definitely a good thing.

 

[Datchew]

It is all about numbers and those pesky things called facts and not supposition. If not that, then anyone can claim anything.

You seem to be making my point for me.

It's the spin doctors, propagandists, bullshit artists, selective reporters and omitters of convenient and inconvenient details and their ilk that make it so murky.