Politics

[Red Leg]

Ukraine isn’t a priority. I’m still flabbergasted that we’ve sent so much money to a dinky little corrupt former combloc nation that’s not even a member of NATO.

I think that is is a remarkably short sighted attitude. A resurgent Russia, having newly seized the richest resource region of Europe and added 40 + million to its population would pose a threat to our national interests that we haven’t seen since the Cold War. More importantly, that sort of power allied to our even greater threat China would be particularly problematic.

I would recommend another bit of history to study. In 1938 Europe and by extension the US, decided to appease another dictator’s territorial demands. He was only stopped seven years later at a staggering cost in blood and treasure. Our contributions to Ukraine’s defense are a pittance in comparison.

Secondly, we have a European people fighting for the simple right to exist. I am not sure how one measures the moral value of supporting that effort, but we failed Czechoslovakia twice and Hungary in the last century In that regard.

Lastly, aid to Ukraine is minuscule compared to the money we are wasting on the woke and green agendas under this administration. At least this investment is truly in our national interests.

“not even a member of NATO” - well yes, that is indeed true. Were Ukraine a NATO member, Russia would never have attacked, and had they, we would have been at war.

Ukraine wants badly to join the EU and eventually NATO. To date, they seem determined to root out the culture of corruption left them by Russian domination. I hope they succeed. But that is secondary to our clear national interest to stop Russian ambitions now.

 

[WAB]

I think that is is a remarkably short sighted attitude. A resurgent Russia, having newly seized the richest resource region of Europe and added 40 + million to its population would pose a threat to our national interests that we haven’t seen since the Cold War. More importantly, that sort of power allied to our even greater threat China would be particularly problematic.

I would recommend another bit of history to study. In 1938 Europe and by extension the US, decided to appease another dictator’s territorial demands. He was only stopped seven years later at a staggering cost in blood and treasure. Our contributions to Ukraine’s defense are a pittance in comparison.

Secondly, we have a European people fighting for the simple right to exist. I am not sure how one measures the moral value of supporting that effort, but we failed Czechoslovakia twice and Hungary in the last century In that regard.

Lastly, aid to Ukraine is minuscule compared to the money we are wasting on the woke and green agendas under this administration. At least this investment is truly in our national interests.

“not even a member of NATO” - well yes, that is indeed true. Were Ukraine a NATO member, Russia would never have attacked, and had they, we would have been at war.

Ukraine wants badly to join the EU and eventually NATO. To date, they seem determined to root out the culture of corruption left them by Russian domination. I hope they succeed. But that is secondary to our clear national interest to stop Russian ambitions now.

I am in complete agreement, which puts me in a difficult place as regards a number of the republican presidential hopefuls who seem to feel that we are wasting resources in support of Ukraine.

 

[Red Leg]

I am in complete agreement, which puts me in a difficult place as regards a number of the republican presidential hopefuls who seem to feel that we are wasting resources in support of Ukraine.

Yep

 

[Red Leg]

Prepare for the disintegration of Putin’s Russia

As Beijing has recognised, there are opportunities for everyone in a catastrophic defeat for Vladimir Putin

www.telegraph.co.uk

More on point commentary emerging following the Russo Sino summit.

 

[BSO Dave]

and that’s the one thing that sours me about desantis. His hesitancy tells me he’s more concerned with becoming president than he is with actually defending Republican values. I’ve been mostly involved in politics at a local level, but the best people I’ve seen in office are the ones who cared about their beliefs more than themselves. I don’t see that from either Trump or Desantis.

As a lifelong resident of Florida who has benefitted from DeSantis' governance on multiple levels, I disagree completely..

From Day-1, DeSantis has demonstrated leadership on a national level and especially throughout Covid. He faced enormous pressure from the federal government threatening to cut federal funding to Florida over his Covid policies that defied the WH and CDC's mandates. The Feds actually went so far as to block Florida's ability to purchase monoclonal antibodies in an effort to thwart DeSantis' successful campaign of deploying statewide treatments early on way before the CDC endorsed their effectiveness.. DeSantis went around them and likely saved thousands of lives by defying the Feds.

DeSantis has been fearless in defying the Federal Government mandates regardless of making himself a national target of criticism from the left. He took enormous risk for the people of Florida. If he was proven unsuccessful in his policies, it would have ended his career.. As we all now realize, his policies were the national template for success. This is only one of many, many examples of DeSantis' leadership that is demonstrative of his landslide re-election victory and for turning Florida red again.. In my view DeSantis is the epitome of leadership and putting the people first..

The "hesitancy" you describe is likely by design and not one of personal choice. DeSantis is going to have legal issues about vacating his office if and when he officially announces a run for POTUS. He needs to be careful in moving forward. I'm sure his political team is going to thoroughly analyze every angle before exposing him to the potential to have to vacate the governor's office to run for POTUS.

I am in complete agreement, which puts me in a difficult place as regards a number of the republican presidential hopefuls who seem to feel that we are wasting resources in support of Ukraine.

For what it's worth, the latest Gallup poll in regard to U.S support in Ukraine is revealing in that there is much more democratic support for continued and escalated involvement in Ukraine than there is republican.. Nearly half of all republican voters now think that the U.S. is doing too much in Ukraine.. Traditionally, the exact opposite would be true.. I wonder why this is?

One Year Later, Americans Still Stand by Ukraine

As the Russia-Ukraine war continues, most Americans support Ukraine in winning back its lost territory, even if that entails a prolonged conflict. Republicans remain more evenly split in their preferences.

news.gallup.com

 

[Tanner Lee]

I think one of the reasons that more republicans are against the escalation in the war is two fold.

Trump was an anti war president, meaning he wanted to end pointless wars or never ending wars. This mentality has really taken over for many republicans. The Ukraine war falls into that category in the eyes of the every day republican.

I also think it is because Republican Party is turning into a working class party and the war doesn’t do anything for them.

Lastly I think the last twenty years of war has also warn down the pro war sentiment for the many republicans.

Just my two bits.

 

[B0MBOY]

I think that is is a remarkably short sighted attitude. A resurgent Russia, having newly seized the richest resource region of Europe and added 40 + million to its population would pose a threat to our national interests that we haven’t seen since the Cold War. More importantly, that sort of power allied to our even greater threat China would be particularly problematic.

I would recommend another bit of history to study. In 1938 Europe and by extension the US, decided to appease another dictator’s territorial demands. He was only stopped seven years later at a staggering cost in blood and treasure. Our contributions to Ukraine’s defense are a pittance in comparison.

Secondly, we have a European people fighting for the simple right to exist. I am not sure how one measures the moral value of supporting that effort, but we failed Czechoslovakia twice and Hungary in the last century In that regard.

Lastly, aid to Ukraine is minuscule compared to the money we are wasting on the woke and green agendas under this administration. At least this investment is truly in our national interests.

“not even a member of NATO” - well yes, that is indeed true. Were Ukraine a NATO member, Russia would never have attacked, and had they, we would have been at war.

Ukraine wants badly to join the EU and eventually NATO. To date, they seem determined to root out the culture of corruption left them by Russian domination. I hope they succeed. But that is secondary to our clear national interest to stop Russian ambitions now.

Russia has a GDP the size of texas. This isn’t the Soviet Union that ruled half the globe anymore. It’s a pathetic corrupt dictatorship limping along trying to relive it’s glory days. I’m happy to hand anyone who wants to kill russies a gun. But why are we funding their pensions and social services? We don’t even fund our own pensions properly. Nor do i think a politician who orders the seizure of churches and stopping services to be a leader working towards freedom.

U.S. to send Ukraine $5.5 billion in new fiscal, military aid

The United States will send an additional $5.5 billion in aid to Ukraine, made up of $4.5 billion in budgetary support and $1 billion in military assistance, to help it come to grips with the turmoil of this year's Russian invasion.

www.reuters.com

Ukraine to prepare law banning churches 'affiliated' with Russia

The Ukrainian government will draw up a law banning churches affiliated with Russia under moves described by President Volodymyr Zelenskiy as necessary to prevent Moscow being able to "weaken Ukraine from within."

www.reuters.com

China is the real threat. And they are continuously seizing territory and nobody cares. They’re building military bases in international waters, creating strong debt ties with African nations, and engaged in a violent border dispute with India and nobody cares. They are the true expanding dictatorship that we’re appeasing. Putin is just an ambitious moron

 

[Red Leg]

Russia has a GDP the size of texas. This isn’t the Soviet Union that ruled half the globe anymore. It’s a pathetic corrupt dictatorship limping along trying to relive it’s glory days. I’m happy to hand anyone who wants to kill russies a gun. But why are we funding their pensions and social services? We don’t even fund our own pensions properly. Nor do i think a politician who orders the seizure of churches and stopping services to be a leader working towards freedom.

U.S. to send Ukraine $5.5 billion in new fiscal, military aid

The United States will send an additional $5.5 billion in aid to Ukraine, made up of $4.5 billion in budgetary support and $1 billion in military assistance, to help it come to grips with the turmoil of this year's Russian invasion.

www.reuters.com

Ukraine to prepare law banning churches 'affiliated' with Russia

The Ukrainian government will draw up a law banning churches affiliated with Russia under moves described by President Volodymyr Zelenskiy as necessary to prevent Moscow being able to "weaken Ukraine from within."

www.reuters.com

China is the real threat. And they are continuously seizing territory and nobody cares. They’re building military bases in international waters, creating strong debt ties with African nations, and engaged in a violent border dispute with India and nobody cares. They are the true expanding dictatorship that we’re appeasing. Putin is just an ambitious moron

You and I are in agreement with respect to China. Let us set that aside.

Russia's power base will be very different if it successfully absorbs Ukraine. And so will our adversaries' appreciation of the US and its allies as a threat to their ambitions. I frankly don't think we have had a more serious challenge to our long term national interests in decades (I include the Middle East). It frustrates me that seems incomprehensible to so many on my side.

The Russian linked churches action was an obvious and necessary response to a specific faction of the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine supporting Russian clandestine activity inside the country while it is engaged in an existential conflict. People like Tucker Carlson have exaggerated this to imply that Ukraine is shutting down all churches - which to use one of Tucker's favorite phrases is "a lie." Roughly 65 - 70% of the Ukrainian population is Eastern Orthodox. A much smaller percentage are of the Russian Orthodox sect.

The sanctimony is even more ridiculous if one recalls just a little history. It is perhaps worth remembering that we took far more drastic measures when last involved in existential conflicts. We merely imprisoned whole families in concentration camps and confiscated the businesses and livelihoods of American citizens who happened to be of Japanese ancestry in WWII. In 1939 the American Bund Party held its rally in Madison Square Garden. A little over a year later it was outlawed and its leaders imprisoned. Lincoln closed opposition newspapers and suspended habeaus corpus - locking up perceived enemies for the duration of the war.

Nations do what is necessary when fighting to the death against another power. Even our country.

I obviously can't prove it, but I more convinced daily that Trump's position with respect to Ukraine has nothing to do with him being "ant-war" or acting in our national interests and everything to do with his self-indulgent animus for Zelensky. Zelensky had the good sense to not involve himself in American domestic politics, and Trump, in typical childish fashion, finds that unforgivable and far more important than what is best for the country.

 

[Doug3006]

I think that is is a remarkably short sighted attitude. A resurgent Russia, having newly seized the richest resource region of Europe and added 40 + million to its population would pose a threat to our national interests that we haven’t seen since the Cold War. More importantly, that sort of power allied to our even greater threat China would be particularly problematic.

I would recommend another bit of history to study. In 1938 Europe and by extension the US, decided to appease another dictator’s territorial demands. He was only stopped seven years later at a staggering cost in blood and treasure. Our contributions to Ukraine’s defense are a pittance in comparison.

Secondly, we have a European people fighting for the simple right to exist. I am not sure how one measures the moral value of supporting that effort, but we failed Czechoslovakia twice and Hungary in the last century In that regard.

Lastly, aid to Ukraine is minuscule compared to the money we are wasting on the woke and green agendas under this administration. At least this investment is truly in our national interests.

“not even a member of NATO” - well yes, that is indeed true. Were Ukraine a NATO member, Russia would never have attacked, and had they, we would have been at war.

Ukraine wants badly to join the EU and eventually NATO. To date, they seem determined to root out the culture of corruption left them by Russian domination. I hope they succeed. But that is secondary to our clear national interest to stop Russian ambitions now.

Totally agree. I’m puzzled by the common sentiment that helping maintain an independent Ukraine is not in our national interest. Putin obviously thinks annexing Ukraine is in Russia’s national interest. So much so that he continues to leverage his nation’s future and is willing to cozy up to Russia’s long term enemy, China. He’s risking Russia becoming a vassal state of the Chi Comms. So, why would he do this? In order to weaken NATO and the western alliance. Both of which are undeniably in our national interest.

 

[WAB]

Totally agree. I’m puzzled by the common sentiment that helping maintain an independent Ukraine is not in our national interest. Putin obviously thinks annexing Ukraine is in Russia’s national interest. So much so that he continues to leverage his nation’s future and is willing to cozy up to Russia’s long term enemy, China. He’s risking Russia becoming a vassal state of the Chi Comms. So, why would he do this? In order to weaken NATO and the western alliance. Both of which are undeniably in our national interest.

I worry that republican leadership is playing political football with Ukraine. Biden provides support to Ukraine so they oppose it. Unfortunately, the average American does not understand that our support is material draw down, not money, so the actual cost to the IS is a fraction of what is being reported.

IMO, if we allow Ukraine to be taken by Russia, we will pay in blood for the mistake. It may not be next year, but it will happen. NATO will be attacked and we will be in.

 

[Doug3006]

I worry that republican leadership is playing political football with Ukraine. Biden provides support to Ukraine so they oppose it. Unfortunately, the average American does not understand that our support is material draw down, not money, so the actual cost to the IS is a fraction of what is being reported.

IMO, if we allow Ukraine to be taken by Russia, we will pay in blood for the mistake. It may not be next year, but it will happen. NATO will be attacked and we will be in.

You’re right, the Republicans are absolutely playing politics with this issue. Isolationism has always been an easy sell to the American public. You’re also right, that every time we go down that road, we end up paying a high price. I no longer consider myself a Republican. I’m a conservative. The Republican party has strayed far from The basic principles of conservatism. So I’m left without a party! That doesn’t mean I won’t vote for Republican if they’re the most conservative option available, but I’m withholding support of the party itself. If I contribute it’s the candidates, not the greater party.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

“In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn’t have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision. If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior’s path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.”
Quote from Col. Dave Grossman

The Ukrainians, evidently mistaken for sheep are average people, young and old. In spite of that, they are doing a remarkable job of holding the wolves at bay. The least we can do is provide enough armaments for them to continue to fight.

Having the moral courage to do the right thing has never been easy. Its harder when nothing is directly threatening those we love. If we allow the Russian bear to be the wolf devouring Ukrainians it will not be the bear we need to worry about, it will be an emboldened dragon.

“I've executed better men than me with a small pistol” said the fictional General Yevgraf Zhivago. What is really needed is a real Russian sheepdog with a small pistol…

 

[Newboomer]

The “mainstream “ media is trying to push Trump as the Republican nominee already and trying to wound Desantis and discourage Republicans from voting for Desantis because they know Desantis can beat Biden. The media did the same thing in 2015 by giving Trump a lot more coverage than the other Republican primary candidates, many who were much more qualified than Trump. Trump sucked up all the oxygen in the room thanks to the media’s obsession with him. Problem was, HC was so unliked that Trump won anyway.

Those two are beginning to sound like a couple spoiled brats whining about each other. I have a suggestion for a Rebublican ticket that makes the most sense I've heard yet-- Noem, Haley or Haley-Noem. We desparately need to go in a totally different direction from what we have now. Get some fresh blood and some people who care about the common folks and not focusing on getting elected or reelected.

 

[Newboomer]

I am in complete agreement, which puts me in a difficult place as regards a number of the republican presidential hopefuls who seem to feel that we are wasting resources in support of Ukraine.

Roger that.

 

[John Wasmuth]

I don’t mind giving Ukraine beans, bullets, and band aides as much as I do this….

US Sending ‘Billions’ to Fund Ukraine Government Operations

The money comes from two bills passed by Congress

www.voanews.com

Their expenses aren’t our problem,,, ya I know, “A smidgen”. Does anyone really think when this ends we won’t be footing the bill to rebuild their country?

 

[HookMeUpII]

I think that is is a remarkably short sighted attitude. A resurgent Russia, having newly seized the richest resource region of Europe and added 40 + million to its population would pose a threat to our national interests that we haven’t seen since the Cold War. More importantly, that sort of power allied to our even greater threat China would be particularly problematic.

I would recommend another bit of history to study. In 1938 Europe and by extension the US, decided to appease another dictator’s territorial demands. He was only stopped seven years later at a staggering cost in blood and treasure. Our contributions to Ukraine’s defense are a pittance in comparison.

Secondly, we have a European people fighting for the simple right to exist. I am not sure how one measures the moral value of supporting that effort, but we failed Czechoslovakia twice and Hungary in the last century In that regard.

Lastly, aid to Ukraine is minuscule compared to the money we are wasting on the woke and green agendas under this administration. At least this investment is truly in our national interests.

“not even a member of NATO” - well yes, that is indeed true. Were Ukraine a NATO member, Russia would never have attacked, and had they, we would have been at war.

Ukraine wants badly to join the EU and eventually NATO. To date, they seem determined to root out the culture of corruption left them by Russian domination. I hope they succeed. But that is secondary to our clear national interest to stop Russian ambitions now.

There's a lot to it. We essentially caused this in a way by sponsoring color revolutions. It's a very convoluted and twisty conversation. It goes even way farther beyond that but like I said, it's a long long path that lead to this.

It's just a mess. I could go on for very long on this but it will likely just turn into many many posts of arguing back and forth.

I personally, don't know where I stand on this. On one hand, millions of innocent people are displaced, many are dying, and a country has been basically uprooted. On the other hand, there's a ton of big money behind the scenes wringing their hands hoping they get supply Ukraine with all the required necessary NATO arms/equipment.

If anyone wants a really good take on the why, listen to the "Martyr-Made" Podcast on Ukraine. Then you can form your own conclusions.

I agree the woke/green crap is ridiculous.

 

[Scott CWO]

There's a lot to it. We essentially caused this in a way by sponsoring color revolutions. It's a very convoluted and twisty conversation. It goes even way farther beyond that but like I said, it's a long long path that lead to this.

It's just a mess. I could go on for very long on this but it will likely just turn into many many posts of arguing back and forth.

I personally, don't know where I stand on this. On one hand, millions of innocent people are displaced, many are dying, and a country has been basically uprooted. On the other hand, there's a ton of big money behind the scenes wringing their hands hoping they get supply Ukraine with all the required necessary NATO arms/equipment.

If anyone wants a really good take on the why, listen to the "Martyr-Made" Podcast on Ukraine. Then you can form your own conclusions.

I agree the woke/green crap is ridiculous.

Can’t believe everything you read or hear.

 

[HookMeUpII]

Can’t believe everything you read or hear.

Well, you have to believe something. Just have to think of it that way.

 

[PARA45]

We all remember 9-11, and what happened after. We have never been invaded, thank God for that, but that 9-11 day we felt like we had been invaded. We were no longer safe. People in the US were horrified of the "next attacks". Now, let's hypothetically say that we did not have the resources we currently have, and we got invaded by XYZ superpower. How would you feel if the world turned their back on us and say, not our problem let them figure it out?

Where would our country be if the French had not stepped in and helped out during our revolutionary war?

Ukrainians are destroying what once was a superpower, and a threat to our country and the world. Let's support those tough fighters by giving them the tools needed to destroy the Russian Army. Let the Ukrainians do the dirty work for us. it's that simple.

 

[HookMeUpII]

We all remember 9-11, and what happened after. We have never been invaded, thank God for that, but that 9-11 day we felt like we had been invaded. We were no longer safe. People in the US were horrified of the "next attacks". Now, let's hypothetically say that we did not have the resources we currently have, and we got invaded by XYZ superpower. How would you feel if the world turned their back on us and say, not our problem let them figure it out?

Where would our country be if the French had not stepped in and helped out during our revolutionary war?

Ukrainians are destroying what once was a superpower, and a threat to our country and the world. Let's support those tough fighters by giving them the tools needed to destroy the Russian Army. Let the Ukrainians do the dirty work for us. it's that simple.

Lots of valid points. However, there is a decent chance Ukraine would have been overrun and taken years ago if not for us and the world.

I think the motive is important to look at. Russia is a problem and has been for a long time. So hopefully in the end that is solved.