Please Recommend An LG (000 Buckshot) Load For Follow Up Work

Professor Mawla

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Good evening ,
Those you gentlemen who have read my articles on these forums , know that I frequently use a Laurona 12 bore ( 2 3/4 inch chambers ) sidelock ejector ( loaded with LG shells ) for following up wounded marauding cheetahs ( also known as Asiatic leopard ) during Problem Animal Control Work . As well as for hunting Axis deer , barking deer and wild boars during beats . Since 1972 , I have always used Eley 2 3/4 inch Alphamax LG shells for these applications . However , Eley decided to discontinue the manufacture of any shot sizes larger than BB in 2016 . For a long time , I used existing stocks of Eley Alphamax LG shells . However , I currently have only two Eley Alphamax LG shells remaining . As a result , I shall soon be needing to look for a replacement .
F3A99265-66E4-4802-BBC9-8AE63FAAB7B7.jpeg

Fortunately , our importers in Bangladesh can import 12 bore shotgun shells from most countries in the world ( barring India , Pakistan and Israel ) . I have found three potential brands of LG shells , from which to choose :
A ) Remington 2 3/4 inch LG shells
94F31352-0231-4FDC-90F7-82E4957D6ECA.jpeg

B ) Federal 2 3/4 inch LG shells
01611516-5803-489C-9F6D-94A3AD5F69D5.jpeg

3 ) Industrial Cartridges 2 3/4 inch LG shells ( the relatively lower velocity of this one slightly worries me )
FA296BC6-9D1F-4AC3-B2F9-F18C38A11102.png


Since I have been using Eley 12 bore shells throughout my entire life , I lack personal experience with these three brands of shotgun ammunition . If any of you gentlemen would be so kind as to provide me with a suggestion or recommendation , then it would be most appreciated .

Another important factor to consider , is that my Laurona 12 bore sidelock ejector was manufactured in 1970 . It possesses a 1/2 choked left barrel and a 1/4 choked right barrel . It is in pristine condition , even after 48 years of use with Eley Alphamax LG shells . However , I understand that English shotgun shells are proofed to C.I.P. standards , while American shotgun shells are proofed to SAAMI standards . I would not wish to run any load through this grand old gun , which might cause the action to shoot loose .

With very best wishes ,

Anayeth
 

Stephen Ausband

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Professor, while I have never used a shotgun to follow up a wounded leopard, I have had some experience with buckshot loads on whitetail deer. My favorite load when I was in a "buckshot only" area was Winchester 2 3/4" magnum loads of 00 buck. The pellets are hardened with antimony, copper plated, and the load contained some sort of fibre filler. They penetrated very well and held a tight pattern. At the time I was using them, I hunted with an old L.C. Smith Ideal Grade shotgun choked full and full. I never saw any damage to the gun. Most shots were within 20 yards, though my largest buck was killed at 35 steps. I've never tried 000 buck, but perhaps these few comments might help. Good luck to you.
 

Professor Mawla

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Professor, while I have never used a shotgun to follow up a wounded leopard, I have had some experience with buckshot loads on whitetail deer. My favorite load when I was in a "buckshot only" area was Winchester 2 3/4" magnum loads of 00 buck. The pellets are hardened with antimony, copper plated, and the load contained some sort of fibre filler. They penetrated very well and held a tight pattern. At the time I was using them, I hunted with an old L.C. Smith Ideal Grade shotgun choked full and full. I never saw any damage to the gun. Most shots were within 20 yards, though my largest buck was killed at 35 steps. I've never tried 000 buck, but perhaps these few comments might help. Good luck to you.
@Stephen Ausband
Thank you so much for your most informative insight . Winchester brand 12 bore shotgun ammunition had completely escaped my mind . Do these still use their famed one piece compression formed plastic hulls ? And do they offer an LG shot size ( which you American gentlemen know as 000 buckshot ) ?
 

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Sorry I cannot help you other than to say obviously you’ve had way too much fun hunting to have run out of your supply!:LOL:(y)
Best of luck finding a substitute!

Just checked the Winchester website. They only list “00” and #4 buck.
 
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Professor Mawla

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Sorry I cannot help you other than to say obviously you’ve had way too much fun hunting to have run out of your supply!:LOL:(y)
Best of luck finding a substitute!

Just checked the Winchester website. They only list “00” and #4 buck.
@Ridgewalker
Please . No apology necessary . You attempted to help me and it is the thought that counts .
 

Stephen Ausband

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@Stephen Ausband
Thank you so much for your most informative insight . Winchester brand 12 bore shotgun ammunition had completely escaped my mind . Do these still use their famed one piece compression formed plastic hulls ? And do they offer an LG shot size ( which you American gentlemen know as 000 buckshot ) ?
I don't think they offer the plated, hardened shot in 000 (LG) loaded in a 2 3/4" shell. I found some Winchester 000 in 3", but it seemed not to use the hardened, plated shot, nor did it have the same kind of wad and filler. Other brands (Federal? Remington? Others?) make work as well, but I had faith in the Winchester brand because it seemed to pattern well and penetrate more deeply than some of the other shells I tried. I'll admit that I used more of it than the others, so my results are certainly not scientific.
 

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I don’t follow up leopards but hevishot dead coyote produces a nice pattern and is heavier than lead. Kills hogs very well.
 

flatwater bill

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Prof.............I did a lot of buckshot testing in 2015, 16 and 17; testing both patterns and penetration. Sadly, I did not test any Eley shells. They must have worked well, or you would not be here today asking your question. While I reached many conclusions for myself, I am unfamiliar with your shotgun, its strength, and your specific needs. But I would suspect zero to about 20 meters would define your range?......and, Thriller....it was the Dead Coyote load that initially started me to question whether bigger is always better in stopping a charge. It is a very good load (but never saw it in 70mm shells) Best of luck in your quest Professor. BTW.........buckshot is now scarce around here.....FWB
 

thriller

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Prof.............I did a lot of buckshot testing in 2015, 16 and 17; testing both patterns and penetration. Sadly, I did not test any Eley shells. They must have worked well, or you would not be here today asking your question. While I reached many conclusions for myself, I am unfamiliar with your shotgun, its strength, and your specific needs. But I would suspect zero to about 20 meters would define your range?......and, Thriller....it was the Dead Coyote load that initially started me to question whether bigger is always better in stopping a charge. It is a very good load (but never saw it in 70mm shells) Best of luck in your quest Professor. BTW.........buckshot is now scarce around here.....FWB
Yea I ordered a bunch in 70 mm a couple years ago but upon further inspection it looks like they are no longer producing that length only 3 inch now.
 

Professor Mawla

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I don’t follow up leopards but hevishot dead coyote produces a nice pattern and is heavier than lead. Kills hogs very well.
@thriller
Thank you very much for your kind suggestion . I have looked at their “ Varmint “ line just now . Unfortunately , they only appear to offer their lettershot sizes in 3 inch shells . At the moment , anyway .
 

Professor Mawla

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Blackcloud also makes a triple B load which is quite impressive although it’s steel shot. I’ve used it on geese.
@Skinnersblade
Thank you very much for your kind suggestion . However , I am extremely hesitant to use steel shot in a vintage Spanish side by side shotgun . It is of great sentimental value to me .
 

Professor Mawla

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Prof.............I did a lot of buckshot testing in 2015, 16 and 17; testing both patterns and penetration. Sadly, I did not test any Eley shells. They must have worked well, or you would not be here today asking your question. While I reached many conclusions for myself, I am unfamiliar with your shotgun, its strength, and your specific needs. But I would suspect zero to about 20 meters would define your range?......and, Thriller....it was the Dead Coyote load that initially started me to question whether bigger is always better in stopping a charge. It is a very good load (but never saw it in 70mm shells) Best of luck in your quest Professor. BTW.........buckshot is now scarce around here.....FWB
Prof.............I did a lot of buckshot testing in 2015, 16 and 17; testing both patterns and penetration. Sadly, I did not test any Eley shells. They must have worked well, or you would not be here today asking your question. While I reached many conclusions for myself, I am unfamiliar with your shotgun, its strength, and your specific needs. But I would suspect zero to about 20 meters would define your range?......and, Thriller....it was the Dead Coyote load that initially started me to question whether bigger is always better in stopping a charge. It is a very good load (but never saw it in 70mm shells) Best of luck in your quest Professor. BTW.........buckshot is now scarce around here.....FWB
@flatwater bill
You are 100 % correct . Eley Alphamax LG shells have not let me down , in the last 48 years .
4B90A679-5976-4526-8CBD-6A63CAE21EF5.jpeg
4BF5E0F6-64B2-49BF-901B-2569FCA43853.png
10FC1C30-84E6-4698-99BD-281C33248E1D.jpeg
411A7844-588D-4E44-9E14-FFE4023BBB3D.jpeg
1DE4D050-948A-467A-B054-FC224B0CEB22.jpeg

My Laurona 12 bore sidelock ejector was manufactured in 1970 . It possesses double triggers and 30 inch barrels . The left barrel is 1/2 choked . The right barrel is 1/4 choked . It weighs 3.18 kilograms .

You are pinpoint accurate about the range . For wounded cheetahs , the range is roughly five metres . For Axis deer and barking deer and wild boars ( when I hunt them by having beats conducted ) , I find that 20 metres ( or less ) is the usual range at which these game animals are taken out .
 
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Professor Mawla

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Have you tried any of the Majors spherical ball loads. They would offer good penetration. I would guess that at leopard charge range they would require no more aiming than buckshot.
@Wyatt Smith
Your logic is extremely reasonable and Major Poton Khan Sir ( whom I personally consider to be one of the greatest hunters of cheetahs ) uses those hand loaded spherical ball shells of his , to devastating effects on all cloven hoofed game ( especially cheetahs ) .

However , the Major and I have a difference in the personal choice of what load to use when following up a wounded marauding cheetah . The Major prefers the spherical ball load , while I prefer the LG load . You are 100 % correct . At the ranges where one gets charged by a wounded cheetah , it would be impossible to miss . However , the advantage of a charge of eight LG slugs over one spherical ball is this : Even in it’s most concentrated form , the charge of LG slugs will cover a wider area than the single spherical ball . Thus , your margin of error is noticeably better .

Of course , that is part of what makes Major Poton Khan Sir so extremely talented at hunting cheetahs . He never allows for any margin for error , in the first place .
 

flatwater bill

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Well said, Professor. When I was developing my charge stopper load, several friends or forum members suggested using a slug. I included many of them in my testing. But I know myself, and I needed a margin for error. If I was certain I would always hit center, I would use a 375 HH with the 270 grain Winchester Power Point. I am not certain. If everyone shot perfectly I suspect there would be no need for a shotgun at all. Multiple projectiles suit me best. As a tangent, I noted that ballistic gel can be useful but misleading when doing penetration tests. At shotgun velocities, even soft buckshot penetrates well. Little deformation and cavitation. On targets with a hard layer or two, simulating bone, a hardened pellet has great advantage. After all, it is difficult to shoot a banana thru a railroad track. I think you will have to test several available loads to feel confident before your next cat attack. 000 buck is hard to find in 70mm and almost all factory loaded 00 buck is now really 0 buck because of the wadding. (pellets averaging 0.318 diam in my testing) Good hunting..............................FW Bill
 

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I had good luck with Baschieri Pellagri 00 buck (12/70 cooper plated 12 pellets) Shot it in my 60' s Beretta s 55 ou. It worked well on boars up to 40 meters.

View attachment 369377

View attachment 369375
@Jure
Thank you very much . This is exactly what I was looking for . I went to the website and I noticed that they also offer a 2 3/4 inch LG shell , which holds ten antimony hardened lead slugs of .36 calibre . Thank you very much . This is exactly what I was looking for . And I have already told my importer to arrange 100 shells for me , by the end of next month .
 
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Good evening ,
Those you gentlemen who have read my articles on these forums , know that I frequently use a Laurona 12 bore ( 2 3/4 inch chambers ) sidelock ejector ( loaded with LG shells ) for following up wounded marauding cheetahs ( also known as Asiatic leopard ) during Problem Animal Control Work . As well as for hunting Axis deer , barking deer and wild boars during beats . Since 1972 , I have always used Eley 2 3/4 inch Alphamax LG shells for these applications . However , Eley decided to discontinue the manufacture of any shot sizes larger than BB in 2016 . For a long time , I used existing stocks of Eley Alphamax LG shells . However , I currently have only two Eley Alphamax LG shells remaining . As a result , I shall soon be needing to look for a replacement .
View attachment 369334
Fortunately , our importers in Bangladesh can import 12 bore shotgun shells from most countries in the world ( barring India , Pakistan and Israel ) . I have found three potential brands of LG shells , from which to choose :
A ) Remington 2 3/4 inch LG shells
View attachment 369335
B ) Federal 2 3/4 inch LG shells
View attachment 369336
3 ) Industrial Cartridges 2 3/4 inch LG shells ( the relatively lower velocity of this one slightly worries me )
View attachment 369337

Since I have been using Eley 12 bore shells throughout my entire life , I lack personal experience with these three brands of shotgun ammunition . If any of you gentlemen would be so kind as to provide me with a suggestion or recommendation , then it would be most appreciated .

Another important factor to consider , is that my Laurona 12 bore sidelock ejector was manufactured in 1970 . It possesses a 1/2 choked left barrel and a 1/4 choked right barrel . It is in pristine condition , even after 48 years of use with Eley Alphamax LG shells . However , I understand that English shotgun shells are proofed to C.I.P. standards , while American shotgun shells are proofed to SAAMI standards . I would not wish to run any load through this grand old gun , which might cause the action to shoot loose .

With very best wishes ,

Anayeth
@ Professor Malwa
I haven't had any experience with the brands show but have use Australian made Winchester 000/SG buckshot to great affect on wild pigs. Our mutual friend Major Poton Kahn has used the same to good affect as well. They are now made in America but are supposed to be the same quality as the Australian ones as when they closed operation in Australia all the machines went to the USA.
Bob
 

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