PHASA distances itself from Captive-bred Lion Hunting

petrusg

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News Release - Polokwane, 19 November 2015

At the 38th annual general meeting of the Professional Hunters’ Association of South Africa (PHASA) held in Polokwane yesterday, the majority of PHASA members present voted to distance the association from captive-bred lion hunting until such time as the South African Predators’ Association (SAPA) could prove the conservation value of this practice to both PHASA and the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN).
 

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Will be some interesting comments coming out of this one!
Being a local and having hunted lion in BOTH the wild ( Tanzania) and within 5000-8000 hectare fenced game farms in RSA on the Botswana border, I have mixed emotions. Undoubtedly, the thrill of hunting wild in the unadulterated bush is the ultimate... BUT, looking at conservation and making lions available to Mr Joe who would never have any other opportunity to hunt African lion, I can accept the concept as long as it is NOT the small fenced enclosures where the lions are released in the early morning and "hunted" within hours with NO chance of hiding or fair chase.
I believe that SAPA will prove the conservation issue and PHASA will again get involved with the captive bred lion hunting issue.... it makes absolute sense, IF DONE PROPERLY!!
 

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I do think there is some conservation value to captive-bred lions. But it is not in the traditional sense where x amount of dollars were used to protect x amount of lions. I think it is the indirect effective, of average Joe coming to Africa to hunt being able to hunt lion and adding to the industry. I am not sure if there is an indirect correlation where people hunt captive breed vs wild lion and what that means to wild population though I do believe in the supply and demand argument and imagine this has resulted in less Wild Lion hunts.

I think the captive hunts if done properly have a place in hunting. If they are released in time to learn the environment in a large enough area, it will be a hunt. I realize this might not be the most popular opinion but I think it benefits the hunter community to have hunts that are somewhat affordable to keep average joes (like myself) able to be involved with Africa. I know if it wasn't for a captive breed lion hunt that a PH called me about, I would have never thought about hunting Africa and would not care as much as I do.

The other fear is we start with captive breed lions, then captive breed buffalo, then breed sable and roan, etc etc. Once they can justify taking away one, they never stop.
 

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I personally won't ever hunt a captive bred lion, but that is MY decision only. I think this is a bad move on the part of PHASA though.

I'm curious, does PHASA also intend to speak out against captive bred cattle? I mean captive bred cattle don't help with wild cattle conservation after all.
 

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Just out of curiosity, are these captive bred lions ever used to reintroduce lions into wild areas, where poaching, etc has wiped them out?
 

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Well, since hunting " has nothing to do with conservation" I guess the greenies won't mind me joining in and mowing these lions down, since they have no more value. Why would the owner increase the number of his lions, if he has nothing to gain from it.
 

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:A Stirring::A Surrender:You watch out about this captive breeding talk :D Pop Popcorn::D Cheers::D Beers::D Booze:. This kind of thing goes no where good.:A Secret::A Voodoo::A Up To Something::E Devious:
 

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To my knowledge in RSA, I do not think that captive bred lions are ever released into the wild.
 

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Just out of curiosity, are these captive bred lions ever used to reintroduce lions into wild areas, where poaching, etc has wiped them out?

Would you buy a new car and leave it on the street with the keys in the ignition ? and walk away ! These animals represent value and an investment to the breeder. Captive bred lion shooting (as repulsive as it is) won't stop till demand stops. ie cash rich, time poor, morally bankrupt trophy hunters.

PHASA represents and helps members ONLY. The effect on the industry will be minimal as not everyone supplying this product is a member of PHASA. Even if they are, I doubt any sanctions would be effective or enforced.
 

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I know this is a hot issue to many people hunters and antis alike. I will speak for myself on this matter. As a hunter I try to things the right way, but I also realize my time on earth is limited, as are the funds I have to hunt with. Therefore if the good lord allows me the opportunity to hunt lion the only lion hunt I would possibly be able to afford would be a fenced hunt. That being said I would only hunt them on a good sized area and would insist he be released as far in advance as possible. I ve spoken to several members here who have hunted fenced lions, and was told they are as mean and unpredictable as a wild lion , hell you guys remember what happened to Reinhardt? Enough said.
 

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Just out of curiosity, are these captive bred lions ever used to reintroduce lions into wild areas, where poaching, etc has wiped them out?

I know Lions have be reintroduced into Moz in certain areas.
I can not guarantee the source of the Lions. I think they might have been Captive bred.
 

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Would you buy a new car and leave it on the street with the keys in the ignition ? and walk away ! These animals represent value and an investment to the breeder. Captive bred lion shooting (as repulsive as it is) won't stop till demand stops. ie cash rich, time poor, morally bankrupt trophy hunters.

PHASA represents and helps members ONLY. The effect on the industry will be minimal as not everyone supplying this product is a member of PHASA. Even if they are, I doubt any sanctions would be effective or enforced.

Any PHASA MEMBER guiding or soliciting a captive bred lion hunt will be called for a diciplinary hearing.

On many marketing floors (SCI, DSC) only PHASA members will be allowed to exhibit I think there is no further explanation required on this.

News Flash gentlemen COP16 is on the way, I predict a total closure by CITES, not just SA cats (captive bred and non captive bred) but a total closure on all Lion, if not CITES a guaranteed closure IMHO by USFWS on all lion imports from all currently open African countries.

I believe that with the decision members made that it'll save allot of egg on the face when the above happens.

As far as the lions in captivity goes.... Believe it or not 75% will probably be Euthenised as Pantera's anti hunting fundi biologist firmly believes that there is no conservation value to these cats as they will not adapt in wilderness areas.... I differ from him.


My best always
 

sierraone

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Jaco, Is your last paragraph then saying that a lion born in captivity and released into the wild will just starve to death, so Pantera wants to euthenise them? I would think that a lion of all animals would learn to kill his prey very fast once no one is there to feed him. Is that just wrong thinking?
 

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Any PHASA MEMBER guiding or soliciting a captive bred lion hunt will be called for a diciplinary hearing.

On many marketing floors (SCI, DSC) only PHASA members will be allowed to exhibit I think there is no further explanation required on this.

News Flash gentlemen COP16 is on the way, I predict a total closure by CITES, not just SA cats (captive bred and non captive bred) but a total closure on all Lion, if not CITES a guaranteed closure IMHO by USFWS on all lion imports from all currently open African countries.

I believe that with the decision members made that it'll save allot of egg on the face when the above happens.

As far as the lions in captivity goes.... Believe it or not 75% will probably be Euthenised as Pantera's anti hunting fundi biologist firmly believes that there is no conservation value to these cats as they will not adapt in wilderness areas.... I differ from him.


My best always
 

HeinrichH

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I personally think this just opened the door for the anti hunters, showing them that they get right what they do. First the lion, and it worked, what is next.... Elephant, leopard ect... Before you know it they will close down on most of the big game. this was just the beginning....

I don't want to say to much, as i also have mixed feelings. I don't support a lot of practices, but i do support what i believe to be the right ones, I also hunt captive bread, as well as non-captive bread. I believe all the wroten apples should have been targeted, and not the industry as a whole. As a PHASA member, I personally believe PHASA has shown the anti hunters that they are 'scared' of their influence, an with that they will close this industry down.

My 2 cents...

All the best as always
 

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Johnny blues.. agree totally with you. Your comment on the aggressiveness of these "fenced" lions is very true. My PH friends that do this often, relate stories on 3 out of 5 hunts ending in a full out charge. My own experience showed that the lion figured 8 'd and was actually walking / stalking up behind us at times!
 

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No doubts that they are dangerous, but it tough to defend a practice that one cannot defend with moral conviction.
Hererin lies the problem gents.

My best always
 

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Jaco,
Whether you, me or Joe Soap support captive bred lion hunting or not, don't you feel that the stance taken by a big organization such as PHASA, only lends support to making the decision easier for USFWS to close all Lion hunting?
This decision was short sighted from PHASA, and I feel should the vote happen again, I think the result might be different. Their decision, might ultimately play a big role in closing down the hunting of a species in the entire Africa.

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure that I want to support or have anything to do with an organization who gives in to "social media" pressure.
 

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