Penetration 270 vs 30/06

[Jamie D Van Roekel]

What do you guys think would penetrate better? A 270 with 130 TTSX or a 30/06 with 150 TTSX?

My thoughts were the 30/06 but when I looked up the bullets the 270 has a little better SD at .242 compared to the 06 at .226. I have shot several animals with each but never the anything that I think is a great comparison. Can’t say I was real impressed with the 270. Did its job but not setting anything on fire. Thought it should be a rabbit to coyote gun. Lol. But the SD would say otherwise. Thanks.

 

[Flipper Dude]

“Thought it should be a rabbit to coyote gun”

O’Conner is rolling over in his grave.

 

[poco]

Test prove not much difference in performances, YouTube has plenty of videos

 

[shootist~]

Momentum, (bullet wt in pounds x velocity), goes to the 150 by about 8.5%. Assumes 2,900 Vs 3,050 fps.

 

[Jamie D Van Roekel]

Momentum, (bullet wt in pounds x velocity), goes to the 150 by about 8.5%. Assumes 2,900 Vs 3,050 fps.

I agree, but is momentum a indicator of penetration? I think it is probably a indicator of killing power. But it has to penetrate to get the trauma and blood loss?

 

[Berettaco]

Not the answer to your question - but my $.02 - I don’t think those are bullet weights I’d use in either. I’ve shot a ton of animals with 150gr in 270 and 180gr in the 30-06. TSX, Aframes and partitions. Same results - complete pass throughs including shoulder shot, the only exception was a frontal shot on Kudu with 06.

 

[Jamie D Van Roekel]

Not the answer to your question - but my $.02 - I don’t think those are bullet weights I’d use in either. I’ve shot a ton of animals with 150gr in 270 and 180gr in the 30-06. TSX, Aframes and partitions. Same results - complete pass throughs including shoulder shot, the only exception was a frontal shot on Kudu with 06.

With the partition I would go to the heavier. Over the years I have gone lighter with the TSX family. They nearly always go through so just as well get better expansion and flatter trajectory.

 

[shootist~]

I agree, but is momentum a indicator of penetration? I think it is probably a indicator of killing power. But it has to penetrate to get the trauma and blood loss?

I think they are related. SD increases as weight increases - in the same caliber, which is not the case here. But it's two completely different calculations.

Dr Kevin Robertson discusses both in The Perfect Shot II" and indicates both are important to penetration. He is discussing much fatter and heavier bullets for DG in his chaper on ballistics, btw.

Stands to reason though, a heavier object in motion will be harder to stop.

 

[Safari Dave]

They are about the same for penetration.

Both excellent cartridges.





IMO, the .30/06 gets the nod in Africa.

There is just something about a larger hole, that defies physics....



African voodoo? (IDK)

 

[sgt_zim]

I think they are related. SD increases as weight increases - in the same caliber, which is not the case here. But it's two completely different calculations.

Dr Kevin Robertson discusses both in The Perfect Shot II" and indicates both are important to penetration. He is discussing much fatter and heavier bullets for DG in his chaper on ballistics, btw.

Stands to reason though, a heavier object in motion will be harder to stop.

Engineering economics and trade-offs and all of that. A shorter shank also means a lower BC. That's not particularly meaningful inside 300 yards, give or take a little.

 

[colorado]

Momentum, (bullet wt in pounds x velocity), goes to the 150 by about 8.5%. Assumes 2,900 Vs 3,050 fps.

It's a combination of SD, momentum and bullet diameter. Larger bullet diameter penetrates less all things being equal, bullet construction is probably the most important element.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Not trying to be a smart allek, with either I think it comes down to shot placement! Both the .270 & .30~06 are well proven in the field.

 

[colorado]

Going to refer you to another AH post based on Art Alphin's book "Any Shot You Want"

Penetration Index & Energy

Energy kills nothing! Damage to vital organs and structure is what gives clean kills. As Jack "O" said many times, put a properly constructed bullet that will penetrate to those vitals in the right place and get ready to pay the taxidermist.

www.africahunting.com

 

[YancyW]

They are interchangeable for me, I wouldn't even think twice about it. The amount of hairsplitting over chamberings and bullet choices is truly impressive.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.......... Thought it should be a rabbit to coyote gun. Lol. .........

I have shot a lot of African Rabbits with that .270 with 130 TTSX.
Giraffe Rabbits,
Wildebeest Rabbits
Impala Rabbits
Kudu Rabbits
Red Duiker Rabbits
Vaal Rhebok Rabbits (Close Cousin to the Rabbit.
Zebra Rabbits
The only bullets that remained in the critter was in the Giraffe Rabbit.

So, penetration is certainly suspect.

 

[YancyW]

I have shot a lot of African Rabbits with that .270 with 130 TTSX.
Giraffe Rabbits,
Wildebeest Rabbits
Impala Rabbits
Kudu Rabbits
Red Duiker Rabbits
Vaal Rhebok Rabbits (Close Cousin to the Rabbit.
Zebra Rabbits
The only bullets that remained in the critter was in the Giraffe Rabbit.

So, penetration is certainly suspect.

Can't be true, I have heard so many times, African animals are all armor plated.

 

[fourfive8]

The question about penetration is complex. So comparing 270 to 30-06 will require testing individual load against load. The physics can’t be fooled, by definition. Momentum generally plays a role in penetration potential. Interestingly and conversely, kinetic energy can be an “enemy” to penetration.
The old 1/2 m (v)(v) thing

 

[C.W. Richter]

pretty similar SDs with the bullets you show. take 'em both to Africa and shoot all the PG there is to have (w/ the 3006 using 220 gr bullets and the 270 your choice, and write back to us on the effectiveness!) what's the 220? .330 SD?? 270 is an ok mid-range deer/antelope cartridge. There are MUCH better sheep cartridges >1/2 century later than Jack's old favorite. Friends use the 270 for everything from prairie dogs to antelope and smallish deer. Anything bigger, they pick up their 270 WSM, hot 6.5s, hot 7s, 30s, 338s. If your range isn't too extreme, there will be no noticeable difference in performance of the two rounds you suggest. The SDs (and BCs) are a little low for my preferences. I like .287ish for good terminal performance on deer and larger in .264-.284 and .250 or greater in .30 (in America; in Africa, use the 1st or 2nd highest SDs i.e. 200-220 gr in .30, 140-160 gr 6.5, 160-175 7). As a handloader, sometimes there's an advantage to a slightly lower SD/BC bullet in a larger caliber (you can squeeze more powder into the 06 case using the comparable yet shorter .30 bullets than you can with the .270.) Jim Zumbo has an old WY bighorn hunting video where he discusses the 270 v 3006 (and he took the sheep w/ the latter.)

 

[fourfive8]

Anything other than controlled load against load testing, is anecdotal crap. Testing correctly (scientifically), will require a lot of repetitions and a lot of testing. It will require a large supply of shot to shot consistent test media changed after each shot. Testing should be of an impact velocity at a normal hunting distance- IMO, something like 100 yards. Can't have factory ammo adjusted to expected velocity at a set range so have to set media at that distance and shoot into it. Can use reloaded ammo adjusted to average factory assumed muzzle velocity then loaded for expected impact velocity at the 100 yard distance with media test distance at about 5 yards from muzzle. This is what I do to test bullets. Reload to expected impact velocity at about 100 yards and shoot into media about 5 yards from muzzle. Select a decent sample size for each load- maybe 3 reps. Take consistent measurements for wound channel estimation, wound channel path and depth of penetration. Pick 3 common factory loads for both the 270 and 30-06 with different common bullet designs in different weights within the common weight ranges for both calibers. This is a lot of shooting, a lot of media resets with a refresh of media after each shot and a lot of measuring. It will take a lot of time. Post results. That will come closest to answering the basic question in the OP. Of course you have to compare apples to apples when reviewing the data. It should be obvious a slow 220 gr tough bullet out of the 30-06 is going to penetrate a lot more than a fast 130 gr frangible bullet out of the 270. But closer apples to apples... might be the penetration of a 150 gr 270 bullets of a particular design compared to a 180 gr 30-06 bullet of that same design. Three reps of each load and bullet weight and design for both calibers should be statistically valid enough to prevent too many "ya buts". The arithmetic indicates a lot of shots

3 shots 130 gr 270 Bullet X
3 shots 130 gr 270 bullet Y
3 shots 130 gr 270 bullet Z

3 shots 150 gr 270 bullet X
3 shots 150 gr 270 bullet Y
3 shots 150 gr 270 bullet Z

3 shots 150 gr 30-06 bullet X
3 shots 150 gr 30-06 bullet Y
3 shots 150 gr 30-06 bullet Z

3 shots 165 gr 30-06 bullet X
3 shots 165 gr 30-06 bullet Y
3 shots 165 gr 30-06 bullet Z

3 shots 180 gr 30-06 bullet X
3 shots 180 gr 30-06 bullet Y
3 shots 180 gr 30-06 bullet Z

= minimum 45 shots

*add 3 shots for each different bullet design or weight tested

 

[CEM0]

The two are very similar, despite the oceans of ink and galaxies of electrons wasted trying to delve their differences. The 270 shoots a little flatter, kicks a little less, isn't quite as powerful. The 30-06 hits a bit harder, kicks a bit more.

Either one makes a superb general purpose hunting cartridge.