Opportunity has knocked/ an offer not to be refused

[mark-hunter]

I can’t imagine any PH in his right mind would have anything to do with such a stunt. But if there is one dumb enough to go along with this stunt, I can easily imagine a game department suspending or revoking his dangerous game license.

I remember when I was hunting plains game with my son (then 14 years old), in an area with white rhinos, that we did regularly meet around - and one was known to be a bit agressive: the PH did not allow my son to get out from car. We were stalking PG on foot, but the kid remained in a car.

The kid was with us, stalking in the bush only in other areas without DG around

However, revoking the PH license would be closely related to any applicable local DG hunting laws and regulations. (we - or I, at least - dont know the local laws and regulations about kids accompanying hunters during DG hunt)

However, regardless of the laws, bringing the 11 year old kid in close quarter DG hunt where situation can rapidly escalate, and especially if tuskless cows are around, does not seam wise.

You may have a point on this, and I tend to agree, but I wouldnt use so harsh words.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Zip, I intend absolutely no disrespect whatsoever, but if either you or your father in law would take an 11 year old after elephant, you’re out of your f*cking mind. And by that, I mean such a stunt (and that IS all this is as an 11 year old has no idea about elephants) is beyond irresponsible.

I can’t imagine any PH in his right mind would have anything to do with such a stunt. But if there is one dumb enough to go along with this stunt, I can easily imagine a game department suspending or revoking his dangerous game license. I can only imagine two scenarios where either of you would even consider trying this with a young kid. #1; neither of you understands how dangerous an elephant can be, or #2; you’re both out of your minds.

Seriously, you need to give up any idea of such a stunt! If you’re still not convinced, contact Zimbabwean PH Phillip Smythe’s widow to ask how life has been for her and their 3 small children since he was killed by an elephant while protecting his client.

I’m going to share something Roy Vincent (long time Rhodesian then Zimbabwean Game Warden turned PH for nearly 40 years) told me before my first elephant hunt with him. Roy said “Don’t ever forget that an elephant can hurt you worse on accident than nearly any other animal can on purpose”. Now I’ve only shot 2 elephant bulls, but in those 2 hunts I’ve been chased multiple times and charged by one bull that both I and Roy shot at 9 yards as he bore down on us. Not the place to have an 11 year old! With elephants, everything can go from calm to hell in a hand basket very quickly. There is not any 11 year old who can be expected to handle such an emergency and protecting him might get you or your PH killed in the process.

This idea to take an 11 year old elephant hunting is probably the worst idea I’ve heard in my entire life. If this offends you, I’m sorry but don’t be so incredibly stupid with your kid.

Good to hear that you had some interesting elephant hunting experiences here in Zimbabwe. From what I read on the mentioned hunt I believe it is taking place in RSA? Not sure how they do their elephant darting down there? So I am not qualified to comment on that hunt.

11year old boy on a elephant hunt, there is nothing illegal in Zimbabwe nor should age bar him from hunting in free ranging Africa, if he is a mature level headed boy that will listen to his PH. Since you have hunted Zimbabwe danger can come from any direction at any time even in camp and not just from elephant. Again I make the strong statement the PH's word should be law to anyone on a hunt.

Lon

 

[Tanks]

So would a tuskless bull and one of these “own use” bulls be about the same price do you think?...

I have only seen ONE tuskless bull since my first visit to Africa 51 years ago. The tuskless elephants are cows, and as most that have hunted them would attest that they are more challenging than bull hunts. Nothing pushes the adrenaline through than pissed off cow elephants searching around for you after you shoot their buddy especially if they have calves around (not the one you shoot of course). Amazing to see all the huffing and puffing as you retreat very slowly. Bulls, they just run away after you shoot one.

Inexpensive elephant hunts in Zimbabwe are CampFire hunts (mostly at night) shooting crop raiders, followed by tuskless.

For comparison CMS was charging $950/day for 10 day tuskless hunt and $5,500 trophy fee in 2022 plus incidentals (ranger fee $25/day, taxes etc.). Might have gone up slightly for 2023. BTW, skin, legs, ears etc. are importable to the USA if you get a permit. I have 3 in process with US fish and wildlife. CMS fulfils all the permit requirements with anti-poaching patrols etc., etc..

 

[DLSJR]

Good to hear that you had some interesting elephant hunting experiences here in Zimbabwe. From what I read on the mentioned hunt I believe it is taking place in RSA? Not sure how they do their elephant darting down there? So I am not qualified to comment on that hunt.

11year old boy on a elephant hunt, there is nothing illegal in Zimbabwe nor should age bar him from hunting in free ranging Africa, if he is a mature level headed boy that will listen to his PH. Since you have hunted Zimbabwe danger can come from any direction at any time even in camp and not just from elephant. Again I make the strong statement the PH's word should be law to anyone on a hunt.

Lon

Lon, of course you’re correct about game departments having a final say in a PH’s license status. What I did not include in my original comment, but should have, was the words “if anything was to go wrong”. Imagine a darting effort where things go wrong and the game department finds out a pre-pubescent kid was involved, what kind of rebuke would a PH get over having a young kid around if anything bad happened at all. I have no problem believing a PH would face professional consequences.

 

[WAB]

Lon, of course you’re correct about game departments having a final say in a PH’s license status. What I did not include in my original comment, but should have, was the words “if anything was to go wrong”. Imagine a darting effort where things go wrong and the game department finds out a pre-pubescent kid was involved, what kind of rebuke would a PH get over having a young kid around if anything bad happened at all. I have no problem believing a PH would face professional consequences.

I think we could probably lighten up a bit. Personally I have had my buddy’s
kid with us on grizzly hunts when he was ten. The boy was ready for the hunt and I don’t feel that we were at all irresponsible taking him. We are also both very experienced bear hunters carrying plenty big sticks. The only way a bear could have gotten to that kid was through us and that wasn’t going to happen. My son was on his first bear hunt at 12. Again, he was a tough Alaskan kid and he was ready for it.

A good friend who ranches in Botswana was probably about the same age when he started accompanying his dad on elephant control work.

Every kid is different. My younger son was safe carrying his own gun at ten. My older son was not. Let’s not get in the business of telling parents what their kids are ready for. The left does enough of that already.

Now to the important question, what the heck is this about darting an elephant???

 

[Sue Tidwell]

Sue, I’m guessing his ’management bull’ is likely an own use hunt. They can be had for around $17-21,000, all in, depending on area and PH. I’m probably going to do an own use hunt in a few years, but first have to get through some hunts I already have booked in several countries over the next couple years. Dan

Yes, that must be it because that sounds like the price range he was thinking that it would be. Thanks Dan. Happy hunting! That is awesome you are getting to go to some other countries too. I wish you successful hunts!

I have only seen ONE tuskless bull since my first visit to Africa 51 years ago. The tuskless elephants are cows, and as most that have hunted them would attest that they are more challenging than bull hunts. Nothing pushes the adrenaline through than pissed off cow elephants searching around for you after you shoot their buddy especially if they have calves around (not the one you shoot of course). Amazing to see all the huffing and puffing as you retreat very slowly. Bulls, they just run away after you shoot one.

Inexpensive elephant hunts in Zimbabwe are CampFire hunts (mostly at night) shooting crop raiders, followed by tuskless.

For comparison CMS was charging $950/day for 10 day tuskless hunt and $5,500 trophy fee in 2022 plus incidentals (ranger fee $25/day, taxes etc.). Might have gone up slightly for 2023. BTW, skin, legs, ears etc. are importable to the USA if you get a permit. I have 3 in process with US fish and wildlife. CMS fulfils all the permit requirements with anti-poaching patrols etc., etc..

Thanks for this great information. I will pass it on to my husband! Thats cool to know that you can get some of it imported with the right permits. I didn't expect that.