Opinions wanted on what loads I should have my new double rifle regulated for

[Noah Hutchens]

Hello, long story short I am needing to specify what loads I want my double rifles barrels regulated to. I am going to supply the ammunition myself to the maker in Texas, I have lots of time before it is necessary but I just wanted to get some opinions on the matter. The calibers I am needing a load for are 500 NE, 470 NE, 450/400, 375 Flanged and 7x57r.

I can find easily(enough) accessible ammunition for all but the 375 Flanged, but obviously options for them are still extremely limited such as it seems only sellier and bellot have factory loaded 7x57r.

Would the consensus be that I have the barrels regulated to factory ammunition and just stockpile a metric butt load of it or should I have a specific non factory load made up for the rifles with easily accessible components? If the latter, do any of you fine people have a good recommended load/components for each of the calibers I listed? Also, would it be best to have the rifles regulated for Premium soft points, such as Barnes TSX or TBBC or Swift A-Frames and then find a separate load with a solid that works well enough after the fact or should it be vice versa?

Thanks for the opinions!

 

[Rare Breed]

First question are you are you a reloader? If not will you use a reloader service like Hendershot? If you don’t want to do either of these then your only choice is factor ammo. Unless you are hunting elephants fairly often using a soft nose bullet is the way to go. In today’s market Hornady DGX would be the choice. I am a reloader so I use what I want no probkem

 

[Noah Hutchens]

First question are you are you a reloader? If not will you use a reloader service like Hendershot? If you don’t want to do either of these then your only choice is factor ammo. Unless you are hunting elephants fairly often using a soft nose bullet is the way to go. In today’s market Hornady DGX would be the choice. I am a reloader so I use what I want no probkem

In the process of getting into it, actually putting together a setup this coming week, worst case I don’t mind paying for a reloading service. I’m not going to be shooting the rifles like crazy so I don’t mind paying extra for a reloading service. I am just looking for a good consensus load that has easy enough accessible components so that I can source ammunition for the doubles in decades to come. I don’t mind going the factory route but I have heard that Hornady bullets leave a little to be desired compared to the competition.

Also, I’m assuming that a standardized “custom load” using easily accessible components would stand the test of time better than being regulated for factory loaded ammunition which could change or be discontinued in the future, would you agree?

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[matt85]

These days it is hard to choose... Because it seems like nothing good is easily available.

My top picks would be Swift A-frames for the 400, 470, and 500. The 375 could either be an A-frame or a Barnes TSX. The 7mm will have a lot more options, but I like Nosler Accubonds for a general purpose small caliber bullet.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Go buy 2-3 cases of each softs and solids for each caliber. You’ll have enough for the maker to regulate, enough for you to practice, and enough to hunt with.

 

[318AE]

I would go the reloading path, and likely wouldn’t own a double if I didn’t reload.

You’ve talked about these rifles being family heirlooms. They could be serviceable for generations. I wouldn’t rely on any current manufacturer to load 500 NE, 470 NE or 450/400 for that long (of 7x57R). When you regulate with a factory load, you never really know what is. You can pull bullets and measure powder, but you still don’t know entirely.

You’ll quickly find that the NE cases are much larger than they need to be with today’s powders. Everything else being equal, I find the best thing to fill a rifle case with is gun powder and the less Dacron or foam backer rod the better. With that in mind, I suggest a readily available slower burning powder. Some here will tell you that means more recoil (as the slower powder will have a larger charge and take up more space). I find the recoil is less of a sharp snap and more of a push. If you really want to go down a rabbit hole, you could pick a powder with better temperature stability (this was the whole point of the old tropical loads).

Doubles are not as finicky as some here would lead you too believe. I doubt you could ever tell the difference between one lot of H4831 and another lot of H4831 in how it regulates for example. We’re not talking about bench rest accuracy. Often if a two right, two left group is the size of the palm of your hand you are doing good (depends on your hand of course )

I’d pick a widely available bullet from a larger manufacturer in the weight the cartridge was originally designed to use. I’d use a traditional copper and lead bullet. Chances are if someone discontinues that bullet, someone else will make one very similar.

I think you might just enjoy having these things more if you load your own…

 

[zephyr]

If you are embarking on this DR journey, before you load your first cartridge purchase a copy of Graeme Wright's "Shooting the British Double" it is just short of the Bible for all things Double Rifle, Shooting and Reloading.. with loads, pressure data and the hows and whys of creating an optimal load for a Double rifle that was regulated for a load many years ago...

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Hello, long story short I am needing to specify what loads I want my double rifles barrels regulated to. I am going to supply the ammunition myself to the maker in Texas, I have lots of time before it is necessary but I just wanted to get some opinions on the matter. The calibers I am needing a load for are 500 NE, 470 NE, 450/400, 375 Flanged and 7x57r.

I can find easily(enough) accessible ammunition for all but the 375 Flanged, but obviously options for them are still extremely limited such as it seems only sellier and bellot have factory loaded 7x57r.

Would the consensus be that I have the barrels regulated to factory ammunition and just stockpile a metric butt load of it or should I have a specific non factory load made up for the rifles with easily accessible components? If the latter, do any of you fine people have a good recommended load/components for each of the calibers I listed? Also, would it be best to have the rifles regulated for Premium soft points, such as Barnes TSX or TBBC or Swift A-Frames and then find a separate load with a solid that works well enough after the fact or should it be vice versa?

Thanks for the opinions!

.500 Nitro Express- Hornady
.470 Nitro Express- Hornady
.450/400 Nitro Express- Hornady
.375 Holland & Holland Flanged- Hendershots or John La Sala or Superior
7x57mmR- RWS

Even though Hornady ammunition isn’t perfect, it’s always readily available.

 

[Noah Hutchens]

These days it is hard to choose... Because it seems like nothing good is easily available.

My top picks would be Swift A-frames for the 400, 470, and 500. The 375 could either be an A-frame or a Barnes TSX. The 7mm will have a lot more options, but I like Nosler Accubonds for a general purpose small caliber bullet.

Is the Barnes TSX not suitable for the larger calibers or are you just stating the A-frame is just the better option?

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

.500 Nitro Express- Hornady
.470 Nitro Express- Hornady
.450/400 Nitro Express- Hornady
.375 Holland & Holland Flanged- Hendershots or John La Sala or Superior
7x57mmR- RWS

Even though Hornady ammunition isn’t perfect, it’s always readily available.

RWS? Please tell me more there as I am not familiar with their ammo or bullets.

 

[rookhawk]

Hello, long story short I am needing to specify what loads I want my double rifles barrels regulated to. I am going to supply the ammunition myself to the maker in Texas, I have lots of time before it is necessary but I just wanted to get some opinions on the matter. The calibers I am needing a load for are 500 NE, 470 NE, 450/400, 375 Flanged and 7x57r.

I can find easily(enough) accessible ammunition for all but the 375 Flanged, but obviously options for them are still extremely limited such as it seems only sellier and bellot have factory loaded 7x57r.

Would the consensus be that I have the barrels regulated to factory ammunition and just stockpile a metric butt load of it or should I have a specific non factory load made up for the rifles with easily accessible components? If the latter, do any of you fine people have a good recommended load/components for each of the calibers I listed? Also, would it be best to have the rifles regulated for Premium soft points, such as Barnes TSX or TBBC or Swift A-Frames and then find a separate load with a solid that works well enough after the fact or should it be vice versa?

Thanks for the opinions!

All the original double rifles in those calibers were regulated for stranded cordite, now extinct. The one powder that exists today that most closely resembles the original behavior of the loads is IMR3031. There are sexier powders out there including the hard to find RL15, but IMR3031 is ubiquitous and works for everything from 303 British to 500 NE.

As to bullets, the easiest thing to regulate for is matching softs and solids. Unfortunately, only two companies make those, Woodleigh with their soft points and traditional solids, and Hornady with their DGS/DGX line. I vote for Hornady because they are available, woodleigh's supply chain is too fragile with many calibers being unavailable for a decade or more.

 

[rookhawk]

RWS? Please tell me more there as I am not familiar with their ammo or bullets.

The rolls royce of ammo. From Germany, no longer imported to the USA.

 

[Noah Hutchens]

All the original double rifles in those calibers were regulated for stranded cordite, now extinct. The one powder that exists today that most closely resembles the original behavior of the loads is IMR3031. There are sexier powders out there including the hard to find RL15, but IMR3031 is ubiquitous and works for everything from 303 British to 500 NE.

As to bullets, the easiest thing to regulate for is matching softs and solids. Unfortunately, only two companies make those, Woodleigh with their soft points and traditional solids, and Hornady with their DGS/DGX line. I vote for Hornady because they are available, woodleigh's supply chain is too fragile with many calibers being unavailable for a decade or more.

Would the Barnes TSX and Barnes solids be another choice for matching softs and solids?

 

[AZDAVE]

Will throw in my .02.

If my understanding is correct you are having a double rifle (Or a number of rifles- or several sets of barrels) built? Not trying to develop loads that shot to the regulation of the rifle?

second you are asking which ammo to have it regulated with (my assumption is currently being built and you want to specify load it will be regulated with)

The other question is do you plan on reloading long term for your double/doubles? or buying factory ammo? Depending on the answers, we can direct you a course of action.

 

[rookhawk]

Would the Barnes TSX and Barnes solids be another choice for matching softs and solids?

Copper bullets tend to regulate poorly in many double rifles. Copper is 22% lighter than lead, so they are volumetrically larger. They are also pointed often times, which double rifles don't feed as well as round nose bullets.

Some people get lucky and they regulate, some do not.

 

[Russ16]

All the original double rifles in those calibers were regulated for stranded cordite, now extinct. The one powder that exists today that most closely resembles the original behavior of the loads is IMR3031. There are sexier powders out there including the hard to find RL15, but IMR3031 is ubiquitous and works for everything from 303 British to 500 NE.

As to bullets, the easiest thing to regulate for is matching softs and solids. Unfortunately, only two companies make those, Woodleigh with their soft points and traditional solids, and Hornady with their DGS/DGX line. I vote for Hornady because they are available, woodleigh's supply chain is too fragile with many calibers being unavailable for a decade or more.

Swift A-Frames and Breakaway solids are also designed to shoot to the same point of impact and do in my 450/400. But the solids are silly expensive and we all know the scarcity issue of swift bullets.

 

[Noah Hutchens]

Will throw in my .02.

If my understanding is correct you are having a double rifle (Or a number of rifles- or several sets of barrels) built? Not trying to develop loads that shot to the regulation of the rifle?

second you are asking which ammo to have it regulated with (my assumption is currently being built and you want to specify load it will be regulated with)

The other question is do you plan on reloading long term for your double/doubles? or buying factory ammo? Depending on the answers, we can direct you a course of action.

First and second are correct, being built brand new and I am specifying what load to be regulated with and I am providing the ammo. Yes I plan on reloading long term, or paying a reloading company to reload to my load specs.

Just looking to know the basics as overall best consensus powder/projectiles to create standardized loads for each caliber. Would prefer a single powder that can be used in the 500 NE, 470 NE, 450/400 and 375 Flanged just for ease of stocking and reloading but obviously not opposed to purchasing multiple powders if it is a better choice for a specific caliber. I still have at least a year before I need to provide the ammunition for the regulation so I have time to gather bulk components and finalize a load, I’m just looking for a good starting place that is known to work well, not match an existing regulation.

 

[rookhawk]

First and second are correct, being built brand new and I am specifying what load to be regulated with and I am providing the ammo. Yes I plan on reloading long term, or paying a reloading company to reload to my load specs.

Just looking to know the basics as overall best consensus powder/projectiles to create standardized loads for each caliber. Would prefer a single powder that can be used in the 500 NE, 470 NE, 450/400 and 375 Flanged just for ease of stocking and reloading but obviously not opposed to purchasing multiple powders if it is a better choice for a specific caliber. I still have at least a year before I need to provide the ammunition for the regulation so I have time to gather bulk components and finalize a load, I’m just looking for a good starting place that is known to work well, not match an existing regulation.

Here's the thing. You can make anything work with a new double when they are setting the regulating wedge and building the rifle around a given load. If that odd combo is no longer available, you may not be able to regulate it to anything else, making it a boat anchor.

If you can build a rifle to shoot the original load specs of 1921/1926 era, being IMR3031 and a Soft, followed by a traditional FMJ solid that typically regulates easily with 1-1.5gr less powder, you have a path forward. Not just today, but you have a fair chance of getting something else to work because you have the same point of origin that a rifle made in the halcyon days had.

It's very different to build a new rifle with a monometal solid, perhaps at a full 2150FPS via chrono, using a modern powder. You may have nowhere else to go.

 

[Noah Hutchens]

Here's the thing. You can make anything work with a new double when they are setting the regulating wedge and building the rifle around a given load. If that odd combo is no longer available, you may not be able to regulate it to anything else, making it a boat anchor.

If you can build a rifle to shoot the original load specs of 1921/1926 era, being IMR3031 and a Soft, followed by a traditional FMJ solid that typically regulates easily with 1-1.5gr less powder, you have a path forward. Not just today, but you have a fair chance of getting something else to work because you have the same point of origin that a rifle made in the halcyon days had.

It's very different to build a new rifle with a monometal solid, perhaps at a full 2150FPS via chrono, using a modern powder. You may have nowhere else to go.

Perfect, that is exactly the information I am looking for. So you would definitely recommend IMR3031 powder? Would that be suitable for all 4 calibers I listed above? If so, I’m guessing a different powder would be necessary for 7x57r? And from your previous comment you would consider the Hornady DGS/DGX to be the best option for the rifle to be regulated to since they are the most readily available(even if they might not be the best bullet out there)?

 

[rookhawk]

Perfect, that is exactly the information I am looking for. So you would definitely recommend IMR3031 powder? Would that be suitable for all 4 calibers I listed above? If so, I’m guessing a different powder would be necessary for 7x57r? And from your previous comment you would consider the Hornady DGS/DGX to be the best option for the rifle to be regulated to since they are the most readily available(even if they might not be the best bullet out there)?

I would use IMR3031 as a traditional standard for 303 British, 450/400, 450NE, 450#2, 465NE, 475#2, 470NE, and 500NE.

I would use IMR4350 as a traditional standard for 7x57R, 375 Flanged, and 375HH.

You *can* use IMR3031 for everything, but with the 7x57 using heavy bullets, and generically for the 375s, 4350 is a go-to, highly accurate, very standard powder.

Correct. I know you can rush to the online gun shop and buy ten lifetimes of Hornady DGX/DGS today for virtually all of the calibers you're interested in. IF on backorder, you'll have them within a year for the odd one you cannot find. Its the easiest path to ample supplies.

For 7x57r and similar, I would select just a soft point, one you really like, and I'd buy a trove of them. No solids required.