Opinions or experience with Swarovski thermal clip-ons? (tM 35+ vs. tM 35.2)

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

The European thermals suck. It is an optical arms race the Chinese are kicking their ass on.

Here in Europe the Geman optics companies can't adapt quick enough. The Chinese ones are years ahead. If you don't believe me, fly over here and go to Frankonia and try them all. Ideally Wurzburg, as that is the biggest shop with the most thermals.

I wanted the Zeiss mid-grade model at $1800. I spent 3 hours using everything my dealer had in stock and I left the store with a $2800 HK Micro model for $1600 as it was a demo.

The demand here is huge, as most European nations have allowed them for hunting during the day time. And for hunting pigs and night. So everyone is using them all the time. I used mine to find a fox I would have never have seen a few weeks ago, who took a nap 250 yards from me on a hillside. I would have never found him.

Personally, I wouldn't go as far as saying that the European Thermals suck. I simply have not used them enough to be able to form that blanket opinion, but I can say that my HK Micro blows my Pulsar out of the water.

 

[Muskox]

I am leaving Germany next year. I will pick up whatever the most current version of the clip on and binoculars is.

I like my hand held a lot, way more than I liked the HK Micro binoculars of current manufacture. They are really cool, but they are twitchy.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I am leaving Germany next year. I will pick up whatever the most current version of the clip on and binoculars is.

I like my hand held a lot, way more than I liked the HK Micro binoculars of current manufacture. They are really cool, but they are twitchy.

I have the clip on that doubles as a handheld. Have not worked with the binoculars.

 

[Muskox]

I have the HK Micro hand held. I need a clip on version.

 

[Red Leg]

The European thermals suck. It is an optical arms race the Chinese are kicking their ass on.

Here in Europe the Geman optics companies can't adapt quick enough. The Chinese ones are years ahead. If you don't believe me, fly over here and go to Frankonia and try them all. Ideally Wurzburg, as that is the biggest shop with the most thermals.

I wanted the Zeiss mid-grade model at $1800. I spent 3 hours using everything my dealer had in stock and I left the store with a $2800 HK Micro model for $1600 as it was a demo.

The demand here is huge, as most European nations have allowed them for hunting during the day time. And for hunting pigs and night. So everyone is using them all the time. I used mine to find a fox I would have never have seen a few weeks ago, who took a nap 250 yards from me on a hillside. I would have never found him.

As I stated earlier, I own and use a Leica Calanox clip on. It is superb. You might try a step up in quality before deciding all European thermals suck. I am unaware of a truly advanced Chinese option of equal quality.

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

I haven't used a clip on but using QD mounts we put Pulsar's on our rifles for night and switch to regular optics for daytime use. Maybe more expensive but seamless in use.

I would add while i don't prefer using the thermal in the day, it works just fine. Even in central Texas the heat signatures are significant in 110 degree heat.

 

[Muskox]

As I stated earlier, I own and use a Leica Calanox clip on. It is superb. You might try a step up in quality before deciding all European thermals suck. I am unaware of a truly advanced Chinese option of equal quality.

I am going to own it, I don't agree. I have used a lot of the European and Chinese models that Frankonia carries up to $3500. Spent days outside behind Zeiss, Leimke, InfiniRay and HK Micro.

Up to $3000, would not consider a European company.

$3000 and up to $5000 the European models will be woven into the better tiers, but not the best.

$5000 and up. There are damn few Asian ones in this price point. The top Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica and Leimeke/Blasers are in this price point.

All of them have the same Schott or Funjinon glass and features once you et to a certain price point.

Most of the European models are either wholly made in Asia, or mostly built in Asia and final finished in their European factories.

The Asian models are being updated multiple times a year. No European company is doing that.

I bought a HK Micro 35 series last year, for what the new 50 is upgraded to. My dealer told me that he doesn't know if he is going to get the Falcon 50's he ordered as they have updated them again and they are telling him he is going to get the more recent model as they figured out new tech and updated the manufacturing process again.

Every time I go into a gun shop in Germany they are all saying the same thing. The Chinese are winning the Thermal optics race.

My 35 is 18 months newer than my PH's 35 and has totally different letter series behind it. What a difference 18 months makes.

The clip ons are funny. I was on a hunting party about 15 years ago where one of my hunting friends shot a bovine heifer calf on a spotlight hunt. I am deathly afraid of shooting something and not seeing it 100%.

I really like night vision vice thermal on the rifle. Or at least I do right now.

Going to Slovenia next weekend. I am going again this fall. I am going to visit Optics Trade and see what they have and how they feel about it. They have thermal rifle scopes, hand held and binoculars. We are not allowed thermal rifle scopes in Germany. So I have not touched one.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

As I stated earlier, I own and use a Leica Calanox clip on. It is superb. You might try a step up in quality before deciding all European thermals suck. I am unaware of a truly advanced Chinese option of equal quality.

My Hk Micro is the dual version that clips on and can be used as a hand held. Its as simple as changing the setting from Handheld to Clip On version, but, you need to confirm zero to ensure that your scope crosshairs are aligned.
In handheld mode, I can pick up an animal at a mile.

 

[Red Leg]

I use the Leica primarily with a .308 AR equipped with a Leica ERi 2.5x10. It shoots to the same point of impact as the scope alone in daylight. When calling at night for bobcats or grey fox, I simply slide it onto a Hornet equipped with the same model scope. Works great.

 

[Canyonet]

I’ve used both and found the TM 35-2 has faster startup and better contrast in rain or fog. Battery life feels longer too, though the difference isn’t huge in real-world use.

I had a similar debate last fall and ended up testing a few options out in the field. What I noticed was how important image processing and refresh rate felt during quick scans or tracking. A buddy of mine uses Pixfra and swears by it for short-range thermal work, especially in tight bush. It might not be for everyone, but I was surprised how clear it was for the price.

 

[RockSlinger404]

My Hk Micro is the dual version that clips on and can be used as a hand held. Its as simple as changing the setting from Handheld to Clip On version, but, you need to confirm zero to ensure that your scope crosshairs are aligned.
In handheld mode, I can pick up an animal at a mile.

I've recently bought a Hikmicro thermal clip on and use the Rusan adapters.

Being new to this game, does anyone have any tips/tricks to ensure repeatable zero when the thermal is taken off and put on again? Do you need to verify zero every time?

It has a red line which can be used as a reference point vs scope crosshairs and I also thought about putting marker on the scope and adapter to ensure it is mount at the same place every time. The other concern is if you use the thermal with more than one adapter to fit on different rifles.

 

[SETH RINGER]

READ THE WHOLE THREAD, STILL A BIT CONFUSED. THINK ITS A SIMPLE QUESTION, CAN I EXPECT TO CLIP ON A TM35+ TO A Z8I AND SHOOT SOMETHING ACCURATELY OVER BAIT AT +/- 50 YARDS WITHOUT SIGHTING IN AGAIN? THX

 

[Green Chile]

My experience is yes and easily so. I put that thermal on my 416 and took bush pigs in the dark.

 

[Muskox]

The wost part of the entire situation is the clip on system.

I am not sure where you would go to find out what actually works with what on what scopes.

Optics Trade in Slovenia's the biggest optics reseller in Europe and the European thermal market is huge. I'd start there.

I would say it is not a simple question.

1. Mount needs to 100% work with the optic and thermal you bought.

2. Clip on thermal should not require sighting in as it uses the rifle sight.

3. The shift ability and durability of the interface is more important than anything else.

Get a hand held thermal and a stand alone night vision rifle scope.

Thermal rifle scope will give you issues with identification.

Proved it again in Slovenia 1 September. Thought I was looking at a fox, switched to thermal and it was a badger.

 

[HUNTROMANIA]

Clip on thermal must be sighted to make sure they will work well on a target.
1. You need the scope attachment. I recommend a fixed one. That ensure you keep the zero of your thermal.

2. After that you need an adapter specific to your thermal.

When you have everything mounted you check the thermal manual and go to the shooting range to do the adjustments. All thermal need adjustments, the night vision not.
Clip-on thermal are usually cheaper than a same sensor thermal scope. And in some countries thermal scopes are not allowed.
First read the manual book, ask your seller, etc about how to have a trustable set up!

 

[SaintPanzer]

READ THE WHOLE THREAD, STILL A BIT CONFUSED. THINK ITS A SIMPLE QUESTION, CAN I EXPECT TO CLIP ON A TM35+ TO A Z8I AND SHOOT SOMETHING ACCURATELY OVER BAIT AT +/- 50 YARDS WITHOUT SIGHTING IN AGAIN? THX

I can tell you that based on experience, using this thermal with the Swarovski clip to a Swarovski scope, your point of aim will stay the same beyond 100 meters.

My combination was a TM35 connected to a Z6i EE. For what it's worth, ensure you use the Swarovski clip. What we (the sales rep at Frankonia and I) learned despite the objective lens size, a Swarovski bell is not the same as other scopes, and the Rusan clip did not fit. You can try and "test" to see if another clip will fit the bell, but easiest is to just use the Swaro clip.

 

[Muskox]

I can tell you that based on experience, using this thermal with the Swarovski clip to a Swarovski scope, your point of aim will stay the same beyond 100 meters.

My combination was a TM35 connected to a Z6i EE. For what it's worth, ensure you use the Swarovski clip. What we (the sales rep at Frankonia and I) learned despite the objective lens size, a Swarovski bell is not the same as other scopes, and the Rusan clip did not fit. You can try and "test" to see if another clip will fit the bell, but easiest is to just use the Swaro clip.

Makes sense. Swarovski for the entire set up should work.

 

[analog_peninsula]

If you rail mount your clip on in alignment with your scope, you can adjust the zoom without difficulty. That said, the scope/clip on system is heavy, and just having a separate scope and thermal on an ADM mount is a more convenient way to go most of the time. I was reasonably happy with my clip on and had no difficulties with it, but ultimately moved on to the two QD solution.

 

[Twraska]

Why not just only use the thermal on that gun? They work in daylight too.

 

[analog_peninsula]

My thermal was of modest quality, useful to maybe 125 yards on smaller targets.