Opinions on the real big boys? 500J, 505 Gibbs, .500 NE, 577NE, 600NE, 700NE etc.

[Northern Shooter]

As someone who is still new to the whole world of big bores, the >0.500 stuff seems like the stuff of dreams, real exotic offerings akin to owning a Bentley or Lamborghini. The fact that they are typically chambered in rifles that cost more than new truck help lead credence to this assertion.

What does everything think of the really big stuff? (0.500 and greater). Which cartridges are you familiar with in this group? It appears that felt recoil is still drastically different from something like a 500NE (74.5Lb-f) vs 600 NE (154 lb.-f).

Do you find much need for a "hunter" to own these chamberings or are they better suited to PH's? Is there a limit or threshold that you've experienced where the recoil just felt like too much to manage?

Would you recommend one to someone who likely won't hunt anything larger than Bison/Cape Buffalo in their lifetime? i.e. no Elephant, Hippo, Rhino etc. Have you ever hunted non-African game with these chamberings? I.e. Moose/Elk/Bear/Bison.

Is there any such thing today as an affordable rifle chambered in the 0.500+ class? I know that CZ and Sako offered these chamberings in rifles that have since been discontinued. Would the most entry level rifle today be something like a $10,000 double chambered in 500 NE?

I'm curious to hear this discussion from those of you who own/have owned these chamberings.

 

[MRBlack]

If buffalo were the largest item on my list and I wanted a double, a 450-400 3” would be at the top. It was Pondoro’s favorite buffalo cartridge if memory serves me correct

 

[Inline6]

Safari Big Five EDL Express rifle is the only one I know of below 10k. Most will say don't waste your money, other that have good ones really like them. Once you get into the .50 and larger the cost of ammo goes up a lot. That is a personal call as in how much effort you want to put in to get proficient with your rifle.

 

[matt85]

Do you find much need for a "hunter" to own these chamberings or are they better suited to PH's? Is there a limit or threshold that you've experienced where the recoil just felt like too much to manage?

There is no such thing as a gun suitable for only a PH. The limit for these guns isn't typically the recoil, it's the weight. The bigger the cartridge, the heavier a gun needs to be in order to comfortable shoot it. Big guns are more challenging to shoot and heavier then medium bore guns like the 375 and 416 so those are more popular these days.

As for affordable big bore guns in 50 caliber or larger... they are pretty much gone. When CZ dropped the 550 Magnum action it killed the "affordable" large bore market. I still regret not picking up a 458 Lott for cheap back then.

 

[Northern Shooter]

There is no such thing as a gun suitable for only a PH. The limit for these guns isn't typically the recoil, it's the weight. The bigger the cartridge, the heavier a gun needs to be in order to comfortable shoot it. Big guns are more challenging to shoot and heavier then medium bore guns like the 375 and 416 so those are more popular these days.

As for affordable big bore guns in 50 caliber or larger... they are pretty much gone. When CZ dropped the 550 Magnum action it killed the "affordable" large bore market. I still regret not picking up a 458 Lott for cheap back then.

Yeah I can't think of any affordable bolt guns availible in 0.50s these days.

It looks like the Model 70 tops out at .458.

 

[Green Chile]

I tell people that 375 is the most practical rifle cartridge for Africa. If you like bigger and are hunting thick skinned then the 416 and 458 make a lot of sense and the recoil is manageable by most. The .50’s and up are better on thick skin DG…IF you are willing to practice and put in the time with one. I enjoy shooting my 500J Mauser and 500NE double but they require some dedication and trigger time from real shooting positions, which really means reloading to get in enough time. As stated above, the big guns require more weight and that’s a serious factor when you get to 577 or larger. At that point, it becomes a very physical game and the mental needs to be strong too.

It’s also fun to create reduced loads for the big guns, which can help with getting more handling time and reduced loads are very capable for anything in North America. Dry fire and snap caps are also important and should be done to make sure you’re not developing bad habits.

 

[Northern Shooter]

I tell people that 375 is the most practical rifle cartridge for Africa. If you like bigger and are hunting thick skinned then the 416 and 458 make a lot of sense and the recoil is manageable by most. The .50’s and up are better on thick skin DG…IF you are willing to practice and put in the time with one. I enjoy shooting my 500J Mauser and 500NE double but they require some dedication and trigger time from real shooting positions, which really means reloading to get in enough time. As stated above, the big guns require more weight and that’s a serious factor when you get to 577 or larger. At that point, it becomes a very physical game and the mental needs to be strong too.

It’s also fun to create reduced loads for the big guns, which can help with getting more handling time and reduced loads are very capable for anything in North America. Dry fire and snap caps are also important and should be done to make sure you’re not developing bad habits.

As someone who hasn't shot anything above the .416's, is it that much of a step up when going from Say .458 Lott to 500J and 470NE to 500NE? I assume those two are a couple of the more "accessible" 0.50's that don't hit quite like the .577's, 600's etc.

 

[Green Chile]

A lot depends on the rifle weight and how the stock fits you and "felt recoil" is different for everyone. Here's one way of looking at it from an online article on 500NE...Factory 500NE ammunition typically produce 85 ft⋅lbf (115 J) of recoil energy at a recoil velocity of 23.5 ft/s (7.2 m/s) using a 10 lb (4.5 kg) rifle which is similar to the recoil of the .458 Lott fired in an 8 lb (3.6 kg) rifle. If you play around with the gun weight it can make large differences.

I don't think there is a huge difference between full loads in 470 and 500. If you get a lightweight 458 Lott or something similar, it can be quite nasty. Most of the nitro doubles are built with proper dimensions and weight for recoil.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Side note, when it comes to bolt actions, which cartridges are larger than 500J/505 Gibbs? I see that the 600NE is availible in a Heym bolt gun but I assume its primarily designed for doubles.

Is there much above the Gibbs?

 

[ducmarc]

There was a fellow on here building 577 trex based on p17 enfield.quite reasonable actually

 

[steve white]

The Heym is a beautiful gun, smooth, too. A man from Austria brought one into camp in Kilombero, Tanzania. He said, "This is my little baby." The bore looked like a shotgun barrel! Unfortunately, it made him flinch so bad he almost missed a hippo.

 

[Northern Shooter]

The Heym is a beautiful gun, smooth, too. A man from Austria brought one into camp in Kilombero, Tanzania. He said, "This is my little baby." The bore looked like a shotgun barrel! Unfortunately, it made him flinch so bad he almost missed a hippo.

From all accounts Heym seem to make a remarkable rifle, whether it's a bolt gun or double.

What cartridge was this rifle chambered in?

 

[Northern Shooter]

I was curious to know what the prices are like on these larger calibers so I looked up local prices (Canada) for comparison. These are the lowest prices that I could find.

505 Gibbs - $320/box (10 rounds, $32/round) - Yikes.
500 NE - $210/box (20 rounds, ($10.5/round) - Not bad.

And...that's it. Not seeing any 500J, 577's, 600'sm 700's etc. I'm guessing many of the owners of these cartridges are invested in handloading as retail options appear to be limited.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I shot 1 hippo on land with a .600 Nitro Express (Rifle was a Heym Jumbo). And an American bison with a .505 Gibbs (Rifle was a custom piece built on a Granite Mountain Arms African Magnum Mauser action). I absolutely loved both calibers and dream of owning a Holland & Holland Royal sidelock ejector in .600 Nitro Express someday.

If you look at my “Media” page, then you’ll see that I’ve shot most of my Cape buffalo & hippo & elephant & lion & leopard with a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum (as well as 1 hippo with a .404 Jeffery & 2 Cape buffalo with a .458 Winchester Magnum). The .375 is perfectly adequate (for a non professional hunter).

That being said, life would be pretty boring and monotonous if we were all always going to Africa with a .375. As they say, variety is the spice of life. And the big calibers ARE FUN (assuming you can get accustomed to the way they recoil). And they just hammer big game in a way that a .375 (or even a .470) never can. For instance, this is the hippo that the .600 Nitro Express floored.

In my last 49 years of hunting in Africa, I’ve never seen a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum be capable of doing that.

Despite my long track record of success with the .375 (as a client hunter), it’s the last caliber that I would choose if I were the white hunter (who has to take hurried shots at dangerous game from unfavorable angles and often in thick brush with low visibility). For that sort of work, I’d keep a .600 Nitro Express double as my backup rifle. Among magazine rifles, I’d choose the .505 Gibbs (loaded with 600Gr bullets).


In regards to affordability, I’m afraid that the .600 Nitro Express and the .505 Gibbs offer no budget routes (in terms of both rifles AND ammunition). One way to get a (relatively) affordable .505 Gibbs rifle built is on a military surplus Pattern-14 Enfield action.

Comparatively more affordable is the .500 Jeffery. Due to the fact that you can fit the cartridge into a standard length action, you could have one built on a Zastava Model 70 action.

With the .500 Jeffery, one advantage that you have is that it has a very common bore diameter (.510) as opposed to the .505 Gibb’s unique bore diameter (.505). So sourcing bullets is a straightforward proposition (as it shares the same bullets as the .500 Nitro Express and the .500 A Square).

Unfortunately, bullet offerings for both the .505 Gibbs and the .600 Nitro Express are rather limited (especially with Woodleigh still being shut down as of this moment):

For the .505 Gibbs, Northfork was the last company to offer 600Gr bullets (Flat Point Solids & Cup Point Solids). And they no longer list them on their website.

For the .600 Nitro Express, Barnes offers a 900Gr flat nosed Banded Solid and Cutting Edge Bullets offers a 900Gr flat nosed Safari Solid. No expanding bullets that I know of.

 

[Northern Shooter]

I shot 1 hippo on land with a .600 Nitro Express (Rifle was a Heym Jumbo). And an American bison with a .505 Gibbs (Rifle was a custom piece built on a Granite Mountain Arms African Magnum Mauser action). I absolutely loved both calibers and dream of owning a Holland & Holland Royal sidelock ejector in .600 Nitro Express someday.

If you look at my “Media” page, then you’ll see that I’ve shot most of my Cape buffalo & hippo & elephant & lion & leopard with a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum (as well as 1 hippo with a .404 Jeffery & 2 Cape buffalo with a .458 Winchester Magnum). The .375 is perfectly adequate (for a non professional hunter).

That being said, life would be pretty boring and monotonous if we were all always going to Africa with a .375. As they say, variety is the spice of life. And the big calibers ARE FUN (assuming you can get accustomed to the way they recoil). And they just hammer big game in a way that a .375 (or even a .470) never can. For instance, this is the hippo that the .600 Nitro Express floored.
View attachment 526579
In my last 49 years of hunting in Africa, I’ve never seen a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum be capable of doing that.

Despite my long track record of success with the .375 (as a client hunter), it’s the last caliber that I would choose if I were the white hunter (who has to take hurried shots at dangerous game from unfavorable angles and often in thick brush with low visibility). For that sort of work, I’d keep a .600 Nitro Express double as my backup rifle. Among magazine rifles, I’d choose the .505 Gibbs (loaded with 600Gr bullets).


In regards to affordability, I’m afraid that the .600 Nitro Express and the .505 Gibbs offer no budget routes (in terms of both rifles AND ammunition). One way to get a (relatively) affordable .505 Gibbs rifle built is on a military surplus Pattern-14 Enfield action.

Comparatively more affordable is the .500 Jeffery. Due to the fact that you can fit the cartridge into a standard length action, you could have one built on a Zastava Model 70 action.

With the .500 Jeffery, one advantage that you have is that it has a very common bore diameter (.510) as opposed to the .505 Gibb’s unique bore diameter (.505). So sourcing bullets is a straightforward proposition (as it shares the same bullets as the .500 Nitro Express and the .500 A Square).

Unfortunately, bullet offerings for both the .505 Gibbs and the .600 Nitro Express are rather limited (especially with Woodleigh still being shut down as of this moment):

For the .505 Gibbs, Northfork was the last company to offer 600Gr bullets (Flat Point Solids & Cup Point Solids). And they no longer list them on their website.

For the .600 Nitro Express, Barnes offers a 900Gr flat nosed Banded Solid and Cutting Edge Bullets offers a 900Gr flat nosed Safari Solid. No expanding bullets that I know of.

Thanks for your insight, that's the exact kind of first hand perspective that I was interested in hearing.

It really does sound like many of these upper tier cartridges are unicorns when it comes to finding factory ammo. I can't imagine how hard (and expensive) it would be right now to source some 700NE.

I'll be sure to check out your media page.

 

[steve white]

From all accounts Heym seem to make a remarkable rifle, whether it's a bolt gun or double.

What cartridge was this rifle chambered in?

600 nitro

 

[colorado]

500 Jeffery. Hits like a truck, recoil but a maiden's kiss.

 

[Green Chile]

Hawk Bullets offers jacketed bullets of various jacket thickness for everything up to 700 Nitro.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

505 Gibbs for the bolt action and 577 for the double. Both hit like Thor’s hammer!

HH

 

[Northern Shooter]

From what I'm reading it sounds like 500NE / 500 Jeffery would be the easiest and most "affordable" of the big bore ammo to source.