Older custom/unique .375

[686]

New member here, planning my first PG safari for 2018. I’m planning on taking my .270 with me, but I wanted to get a bigger gun to practice and get proficient with (for either this PG hunt or maybe a buffalo hunt in a few years). I found a interesting/unique rifle I wanted to share and get any thoughts from folks here.

Here’s some pics:

The rifle is a Sako action L61R from around the late 60’s that had a custom heavy barrel and stock installed by Flaig’s (an old, now gone, German gunsmith/custom shop in western Pennsylvania). Flaig’s chambered the gun in .375 Weatherby, but I plan on shooting .375 H&H through it (assuming it likes that).

It has a vintage redfield scope that I don’t know much about, it may be usable, maybe not. The glass is ok, but the eye relief could be better. I will probably look for a more modern scope, but I do like the vintage look.

It needs a new recoil pad, and I think I need the LOP lengthened a little. I’m thinking about having Ken at speedbump stockworks put one of his gold series recoil dampers on it and adjust the stock to me.

Other than that, it need a cleaning and I’m looking forward to shooting it.

Any other thoughts suggestions?

 

[CAustin]

Practice, practice, practice and then practice some more!

 

[Ray B]

The stock looks quite short, and thick!! The older Redfield scopes were well built and top of the line for American scopes of the day. Were it me, I'd probably look into lengthening/replacing the stock and putting a scope on it that I knew would be dependable prior to any serious hunting.

 

[Ridgewalker]

As CAustin said practice and I’m going to add on sticks.
I don’t know anything about that model vintage Sako, but if it’s anything like today’s, it should do you well.
Any idea of the weight?
How’s the trigger pull?
So your plan is to shoot 375 H&H to resize them before reloading to 375 Weatherby? Cool!
I’d recommend something like a 1-6 or 2-7x scope, but I’d definitely at least use the Redfield as a backup. I’m sure the newer scopes are advanced a great deal.
Can’t wait to hear how it goes. And welcome to AH!

 

[crs]

Nice looking rifle.
By all means shoot it a good bit before tinkering with changes; it may be just right for you as is, but if not, the shooting from bench, offhand, and from sticks should tell you what needs to be changed.

BTW, my wife has a Ruger 77 .243 with an "old" Redfield scope and can plug the bullseye all day long. My main deer rifle, a pre 64 M70 Featherweight .308 has the Original Leupold M8 4 power scope and has taken more game than I can remember. The rifle and scope are as good as I can shoot out to 300 yards , so I see no reason to "kick a winner". The first three rounds from a box of Hornady Superperformance 165 grain ammo have taken a cow elk, a coyote, and a 600 pound feral hog; all one shot kills. At this rate that box of ammo may last a few years.

 

[686]

Any idea of the weight?
How’s the trigger pull?
So your plan is to shoot 375 H&H to resize them before reloading to 375 Weatherby? Cool!
I’d recommend something like a 1-6 or 2-7x scope, but I’d definitely at least use the Redfield as a backup. I’m sure the newer scopes are advanced a great deal.

Regarding weight, this thing is a beast, 13lbs! That said, I don’t mind carrying a heavy rifle, and I want the recoil reduction. Using Chuck Hawk’s data, the weight of this gun should have the recoil energy down around 7mm Mag levels. I’m in the “no muzzle brake” camp, but I gave myself a little flinch a few years back by shooting my muzzleloader (.54 Hawken) at higher loads, and I don’t want any resurrection of that. If I can get the stock right for me, I feel like I’ll have reduced the recoil about as far as I can (without porting/braking), and should set myself up as well as I can for accuracy.

The trigger pull is very crisp, I would estimate at 4 lbs, slightly heavier than my Tikka 270. The action is slick/fast. I know CRF is a big deal for some folks, but I really like Sako/Tikka push feed actions, they are very smooth, and I’ve never had a hang-up cycling the bolt, whereas I’ve had some CRF actions hang up during cycling.

Yes, I’ll be shooting H&H ammo to start and will keep the fired brass to build up a stock of “fire-formed” 375 Weatherby brass. If I like/shoot this gun enough I can reload the brass either at H&H pressures or step up incrementally towards Weatherby pressures.

I’m thinking I’ll put this redfield on an old 6mm Rem I’ve got and look for something more modern for this rifle, but I want to try and maintain the mid-century aesthetics. I grew up shooting mid-century guns and I just like the looks/feel of them, makes me feel like I’m with family.

 

[686]

Nice looking rifle.
By all means shoot it a good bit before tinkering with changes; it may be just right for you as is, but if not, the shooting from bench, offhand, and from sticks should tell you what needs to be changed.

BTW, my wife has a Ruger 77 .243 with an "old" Redfield scope and can plug the bullseye all day long. My main deer rifle, a pre 64 M70 Featherweight .308 has the Original Leupold M8 4 power scope and has taken more game than I can remember. The rifle and scope are as good as I can shoot out to 300 yards , so I see no reason to "kick a winner".

I hear you, and I am usually of the “if it ain’t broke...” mindset, but I’d hate to be in the bush and the scope start fogging internally because a 50 year old seal broke, etc. Also, I wish it had a little more eye relief. But I will definitely shoot it some before making a decision.

 

[Shootist43]

Quick question, are the 375 Weatherby and 375 H&H chambers identical? Somehow I rather doubt it. There is now doubt whatsoever that a 375 would be more than adequate for the purposes you outlined. According to "Hoyle" any ammo you bring into Africa needs to be head stamped the same as the rifle you will be using. While fire forming H& H marked brass may work for you, it may not work in the SAPS office if they bother to check it. If that old Redfield is also from the 60 (s) and is click adjustable, you can always send it off to Iron Sight and they can rebuild it for you. I have lots of my old guns scoped with K 4 and or K 6 Weavers that have been rebuilt.

 

[686]

Quick question, are the 375 Weatherby and 375 H&H chambers identical? Somehow I rather doubt it. There is now doubt whatsoever that a 375 would be more than adequate for the purposes you outlined. According to "Hoyle" any ammo you bring into Africa needs to be head stamped the same as the rifle you will be using. While fire forming H& H marked brass may work for you, it may not work in the SAPS office if they bother to check it. If that old Redfield is also from the 60 (s) and is click adjustable, you can always send it off to Iron Sight and they can rebuild it for you. I have lots of my old guns scoped with K 4 and or K 6 Weavers that have been rebuilt.

The Weatherby chambering is “blown out” slightly to increase the case volume, but multiple published sources I’ve read state that it’s perfectly acceptable/safe to shoot H&H through it. Regarding the import of the ammo to RSA, that’s a good point I hadn’t thought of. My backup plan was to get Hendershot’s to load me up some 375 Weatherby brass at pressures closer to H&H. If I did bring H&H headstamped ammo and SAPS seized it, I would think I could get replacement H&H ammo in country.?.

Good info on the scope rebuild - I had never heard of that!

 

[Ray B]

My main deer rifle, a pre 64 M70 Featherweight .308 has the Original Leupold M8 4 power scope

Hi CRS, I have been trying to date a Leupold M7 scope and was under the impression that it was made in the early 1970s, however since your pre-64 came with an M8, it must be older than I thought. Do you recall the year your rifle was purchased? Thank you for your help in trying to put a date on the scope. From the above comments, it looks like I may be able to get some info from Leupold, so I'll give them a try too.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

You can take the Sako, but then you'd be missing the perfect opportunity to justify buying a new rifle. That's frowned upon here................

 

[wesheltonj]

(1) SAPS never looked at my ammo, not to say that will not happen to you.
(2) I don't know what you paid for the gun, but be careful how much you are going to put into it. It might be cheaper to sell that one and buy a new one to your liking. I am afraid you might need a new stock that LOP looks very, very short. A bunch of shims is going to look less then desirable.

 

[crs]

RayB,
You are correct in contacting Leupold for history of M7 and M8 scopes.

I may have misled you on when I bought the M8, as the rifle had no scope when I bought it used in the late 1960s to early 1970s. That is when I put the M8 on the rifle. That is also when I floated the barrel and honed the trigger. Later, it was Magnaported to reduce barrel jump when shooting off sandbags. That was about when a gunsmith friend did a refurb on the metal and wood, making it look like new.

I could be more specific on the dates had I had kept a Provenance document as I now do with guns.

 

[Art Lambart II]

@686 You can get 375 H&H ammo in SA but its not as easy as you think. Firstly it costs over $150 per box and you'll need someone with a permit to purchase ammo in that caliber in order to buy it. The restrictions on buying firearms and ammo in SA are much different than they are here in the USA so check with your PH and make sure you can get the ammo you need.

Your 270 is a fine rifle and you'll find various opinions here on AH about using it in Africa. Based on my experience with it in SA I will tell you that on the larger PG (anything over 250lbs) your first shot must be close to perfect. The Zebra in my avatar was taken with a 270, the first shot was low and it took 3 more 150 grain Oryx's and a 2K chase to seal the deal. I will admit that the 3 extra rounds and the 2K chase where all my fault and not the 270's or the Norma ammo I was using but things often don't go as planned in the field and bad shots happen. IMO the 270 is outstanding if your first shot is perfect but its on the small side if follow up shots are required.

The bushveld in the Limpopo looks just like west Texas, right down to the cactus, so a spot and stalk hog hunt somewhere around Abilene would be a great way to test all of your gear before you head to SA.

 

[686]

(2) I don't know what you paid for the gun, but be careful how much you are going to put into it. It might be cheaper to sell that one and buy a new one to your liking. I am afraid you might need a new stock that LOP looks very, very short. A bunch of shims is going to look less then desirable.

You're not wrong, but I was willing to take some chances here. I bought the gun for $750, so I have some budget left to work with before I think I'll be completely "upside down" from an investment prospective. The LOP is currently 13", my ideal LOP is probably about 14". I put on a PAST recoil pad on my shoulder last night, and the LOP felt about right shouldering the gun, and I plan on using that for most of my shooting if possible. The recoil system I'm considering would add some length as well, so I think I can get the existing stock dialed in. I want to keep the existing stock if possible; the workmanship seems good where it was fitted to the metal, it's thick in the wrist/cheek/butt area so it should be durable for travel/field and help with recoil, and it has a "well used yet cared for" vintage aesthetic that is something I really enjoy in a firearm.

Also, I like the heavy barrel, which seems very rare in 375, and I'm optimistic it will be accurate.

 

[686]

@686 You can get 375 H&H ammo in SA but its not as easy as you think. Firstly it costs over $150 per box and you'll need someone with a permit to purchase ammo in that caliber in order to buy it. The restrictions on buying firearms and ammo in SA are much different than they are here in the USA so check with your PH and make sure you can get the ammo you need.

Your 270 is a fine rifle and you'll find various opinions here on AH about using it in Africa. Based on my experience with it in SA I will tell you that on the larger PG (anything over 250lbs) your first shot must be close to perfect. The Zebra in my avatar was taken with a 270, the first shot was low and it took 3 more 150 grain Oryx's and a 2K chase to seal the deal. I will admit that the 3 extra rounds and the 2K chase where all my fault and not the 270's or the Norma ammo I was using but things often don't go as planned in the field and bad shots happen. IMO the 270 is outstanding if your first shot is perfect but its on the small side if follow up shots are required.

The bushveld in the Limpopo looks just like west Texas, right down to the cactus, so a spot and stalk hog hunt somewhere around Abilene would be a great way to test all of your gear before you head to SA.

Great info, thanks. Your experience with your 270 on larger PG is exactly why I want to bring a bigger rifle if I can get proficient with it - a little more capability and power.

 

[dwboso]

If it was me, I'd keep looking unless you buy it cheap as a project rifle and do a complete rebuild. JMO

 

[Art Lambart II]

686,

If your 375 doesn't work out I would recommend a 35 Whelen. Its my go to round for all but 4 of the "Big 5" its the gun I took to Africa, the 270 I used was my PH's rifle, thanks to Delta airlines my rifles arrived in Africa a day after I did and had to be delivered to the hunting lodge.

 

[TTundra]

You're not wrong, but I was willing to take some chances here. I bought the gun for $750, so I have some budget left to work with before I think I'll be completely "upside down" from an investment prospective. .

The investment should be your 'excitement' in the project, not the money spent. Who cares if you spend a few hundred over what you wanted. It its fun and intriguing to you to finish the build, go for it. Some of my favorite rigs are the odd balls that make people scratch their head....but I love them all.

 

[686]

UPDATE and Range Report:

I took the rifle to the range today and shot some H&H ammo through it (factory Remington 270 gr). In summary: I LOVE THIS RIFLE!!!!!!

I was fairly nervous shooting this for the first time, as I’ve never shot a rifle bigger than a 270, but to be honest, this rifle is more enjoyable to shoot than my 270, and I think will be very accurate once I have more time to practice.

First group off the bench with an unloaded lead sled:

I was ecstatic after seeing this group, and feeling the completely manageable recoil of the gun. The group was off from the center of the target, so I made some adjustments walking it over to the main bullseye, ending up in a pretty satisfying place:

Now, to get off the bench and on a tripod and shoot. I was a little nervous not having the sled to help, but again, just not a problem at all! I’ll upload a video and post it, please let me know if I could do something better with my form. The LOP of this gun feels about right for me with the recoil shield on.

Fast three shot group at 25 yards (needs work):

I need a heavier tripod or shooting sticks, but other than that, I’m thrilled! The old Redfield scope was totally serviceable as well.