Old style Hornady 375 300 grain FMJ RN

[Longwalker]

I am currently doing hand load development with various 300 grain expanding bullets for my .375 H&H. ( A frames, Nosher partitions, Triple shock X) I plan to hunt buffalo and various other African game in the near future.

When I am satisfied with an expanding bullet load, I plan to also load some solids to use for shooting very small game with minimal damage or possibly to use for deep penetration on hippo or maybe even elephant. I don't need many solids, if they shoot to the same point of impact as the expanding version I'd just practise with the expanding bullets and take a few solids along on the hunt for special situations.

So, your advice and experience please. I have a box of 50 of these old style Hornady 300 gr. FMJ RN bullets in my stash. Are they any good? or should I buy something else? It seems from my research that round nose solids are preferred for less damage on small critters and flat points for better straight line penetration on really big stuff. I can get Barnes Banded solids or Woodlieghs without much trouble.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Barnes banded solids in 375? I thought they got pulled off the market by the ATF?

I used factory Barnes 300 TSX and factory Hornady DGS on my hunt in Sept 2017. They worked fine on buff, bushbuck and bushpig (Barnes TSX), then Duiker and jackal (Hornady DGS). The velocity was within 20fps and at 100 yards the POI difference was about 1-1 1/2”.

Good luck on your handloads!

 

[CTDolan]

I used to shoot the old Hornady round-nosed solid out of my 375 H&H and 378 Weatherby. They performed admirably, even when pushed to Weatherby velocities. That said, though, there are better solids on the market, I guess (its successor, the DGS, being one). Should you want something different my vote would go to the Woodleigh steel-jacketed solid.

 

[fourfive8]

There are quite a few really good true solids now on the market. Barnes quit selling 375 banded solids but there may some NOS around. For soft points the ones you mentioned will do fine. If you wanted to use just ONE bullet for everything from buffalo to impala the 300 gr TSX wouldn't be bad choice- IMO. The Partition could do excessive damage to smaller plains game with certain hits and even the A Frame might if large, solid bone is hit.

If you want to add a good true solid to your ammo option, I'd consider North Fork either flat or cup point solid, GS Custom FP solid, Cutting Edge FP solid or Woodleigh "hydro" solid (a type of cup nosed solid). These are all banded monometal solids and tend to be very accurate and are very easy to develop loads for. For plains game any of the flat point true solids won't do much damage at all and will certainly pass through except maybe eland at certain angles.... based on my own experience.

 

[Longwalker]

I checked my suppliers and the Barnes banded solid is sold out and not coming back. I'll look into Woodleighs.

 

[IvW]

Use the FMJ round nose bullets for the small critters only. They are prone to riveting and bending when used on hard skinned DG at speeds higher than traditional NE loads(2100 fps). They also cause very little secondary damage on the way through.

When talking about Hippo and Elephant, there are much better bullets available, you are well advised to rather find a Brass solid with a good meplat(flat) on the front. Alternatively as you mention Woodleighs, try the Hydro's.

If you are hunting hippo in the water(brain shot), a quality bonded expanding bullet is a better choice than a solid. On land solids.

 

[ChrisG]

The old round nose Hornady solids were steel jacketed. Not as tough as the new DGS and not flat nosed but they will do the job. The only issue you might have (anecdotally) is trying to bust one of the big bones or punch through the skull on an elephant. This is what caused the old solids of yesteryear to rivet or deviate. This is also where monometals or bonded solids shine. The woodleigh would be a great replacement. For hippo I think the Hornady should be fine. Cutting edge also makes a flat nosed monometal .375 solid as does nosler. But I have never shot a hippo so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Or use this as an excuse to buy a .416 or .458!

 

[fourfive8]

If I'm not mistaken both the so-called "old style" Hornady DGS and DGX have a thin steel envelope around a lead core. Basically a conventional cup and core bullet with a thin steel envelope around the core. But neither are/were bonded. I've tested them and I could not tell if the steel "jacket" did anything or not. The DGX simply had the open end of the steel envelope facing the front while the DGS (not at all a solid!) had the open end of the steel envelope to the rear- kind of like a regular full patch jacketed bullet. Will/did they kill stuff? - of course. The only reason I shoot them is they are a relatively inexpensive bullet for practice and range time. The jacket to core integrity relied on a very weak design called an "interlock" ring in the jacket to keep the core in place. Would they occasionally (too often for any bullet called a dangerous game bullet) come apart like a cheap suit shredding the jacket and shucking the lead core- Yes! Hornady only started bonding them maybe a year ago and only after years of complaints and reports of bullet failure.

How does "riveting" cause a bullet to change direction and ruin terminal performance?? Seems everyone picks up and uses the word but no explanation of how that works is ever forthcoming. Sounds good I guess. Some types of bullets do rivet and some types of monometal solid bullets such as the North Fork Cup Point Solid and the Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized Solid do rivet some. And... soft points are supposed to rivet a great deal
Of course if a bullet bends then it will likely not perform well for penetration in a straight line. I also see riveting and bending used in the same sentence implying one is directly related to the other. I can't understand how riveting is similar or related to bending. Again it all sounds good. Come to think of it, if you rivet a spire point some or rivet a round point a little don't you end up with a flat point

 

[ChrisG]

If I'm not mistaken both the so-called "old style" Hornady DGS and DGX have a thin steel envelope around a lead core. Basically a conventional cup and core bullet with a thin steel envelope around the core. But neither are/were bonded. I've tested them and I could not tell if the steel "jacket" did anything or not. The DGX simply had the open end of the steel envelope facing the front while the DGS (not at all a solid!) had the open end of the steel envelope to the rear- kind of like a regular full patch jacketed bullet. Will/did they kill stuff? - of course. The only reason I shoot them is they are a relatively inexpensive bullet for practice and range time. The jacket to core integrity relied on a very weak design called an "interlock" ring in the jacket to keep the core in place. Would they occasionally (too often for any bullet called a dangerous game bullet) come apart like a cheap suit shredding the jacket and shucking the lead core- Yes! Hornady only started bonding them maybe a year ago and only after years of complaints and reports of bullet failure.

How does "riveting" cause a bullet to change direction and ruin terminal performance?? Seems everyone picks up and uses the word but no explanation of how that works is ever forthcoming. Sounds good I guess. Some types of bullets do rivet and some types of monometal solid bullets such as the North Fork Cup Point Solid and the Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized Solid do rivet some. And... soft points are supposed to rivet a great deal
Of course if a bullet bends then it will likely not perform well for penetration in a straight line. I also see riveting and bending used in the same sentence implying one is directly related to the other. I can't understand how riveting is similar or related to bending. Again it all sounds good. Come to think of it, if you rivet a spire point some or rivet a round point a little don't you end up with a flat point

I think you're confusing rivet with mushroom. A riveted solid and a flattened solid are two different things. When a solid rivets it buckles on one side or the other similar to crushing a coke can. This causes the bullet to bend and deviate from its course. Sometimes dramatically. John Taylor describes a bullet that turned almost 90 degrees and ended up in the root of a tusk. DGS and Hornady RN solids as mentioned in this thread are two different bullets. Both are steel covered but the DGS is significantly thicker. The original Hornady was more like the original kynochs.

 

[Waterbuck2008]

I've used all the traditional Hornady FMJ ammo I've acquired for practice rounds. I'm sure it's better than a well-thrown spear as a DG stopper, but, as mentioned above, solids have come a long way since the kynoch style.

 

[IvW]

If I'm not mistaken both the so-called "old style" Hornady DGS and DGX have a thin steel envelope around a lead core. Basically a conventional cup and core bullet with a thin steel envelope around the core. But neither are/were bonded. I've tested them and I could not tell if the steel "jacket" did anything or not. The DGX simply had the open end of the steel envelope facing the front while the DGS (not at all a solid!) had the open end of the steel envelope to the rear- kind of like a regular full patch jacketed bullet. Will/did they kill stuff? - of course. The only reason I shoot them is they are a relatively inexpensive bullet for practice and range time. The jacket to core integrity relied on a very weak design called an "interlock" ring in the jacket to keep the core in place. Would they occasionally (too often for any bullet called a dangerous game bullet) come apart like a cheap suit shredding the jacket and shucking the lead core- Yes! Hornady only started bonding them maybe a year ago and only after years of complaints and reports of bullet failure.

How does "riveting" cause a bullet to change direction and ruin terminal performance?? Seems everyone picks up and uses the word but no explanation of how that works is ever forthcoming. Sounds good I guess. Some types of bullets do rivet and some types of monometal solid bullets such as the North Fork Cup Point Solid and the Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized Solid do rivet some. And... soft points are supposed to rivet a great deal
Of course if a bullet bends then it will likely not perform well for penetration in a straight line. I also see riveting and bending used in the same sentence implying one is directly related to the other. I can't understand how riveting is similar or related to bending. Again it all sounds good. Come to think of it, if you rivet a spire point some or rivet a round point a little don't you end up with a flat point

Without getting too technical, riveting, bending, distorting, mushrooming, expanding, bending call it what you may when talking about SOLID bullets is a failure of the bullet to some extent and has all sorts of negative influence on the performance of a solid bullet. Solid bullets are designed to remain intact and penetrate in a straight line. Once they start changing shape especially on the front, they can do strange things.

FMJ round nosed bullets are notorious for this.

Trust me it is not a case of picking up on words but rather experiencing these types of failures with these bullets in the field. The conventional FMJ do perform slightly better when used in traditional NE loadings and cartridges but are definitely not recommended for higher velocity cartridges such as the 375 H&H, 458 Lott, 500 Jeff etc. This is on hard kinned dangerous game and not on smaller animals where you do not want to ruin the cape.

There are so many better designed and performing bullets available I fail to see the need for FMJ round nosed bullets other than plinking or using your bigger bore rifle for shooting smaller animals so as not to damage the cape.

If a FMJ round point bullet rivets it is doing something it was not designed to do in the first place and you are inviting the opportunity for a disaster if you knowingly use such a bullet on thick skinned DG.

When it comes to thick skinned DG I prefer to use the best bullets I can and that perform consistently with the best results, for me I have found that a brass solid with a Meplat is the best and most consistent available. The Woodleigh Hydro's seem to be building up a good reputation as well but I don't feel the need to change as what I am using has served me well.

A solid should remain intact, not change shape or distort(apart from rifling marks) and penetrate in a straight line in order to be consistent good performers, unfortunately these old Round nosed non bonded FMJ do not fit into this bracket by a long margin.

 

[Pondoro]

These work splendidly on elephant..300 grain .375H&H..

Of the 2 elephants I have shot with .375H&H, I used this bullet. One I took with a headshot at 80 meters...(yeah, yeah I know...way too long distance..) and the other took 2 heart-lungshots..plus one in the head.

A friend took a frontal brainshot at elephant that went too low.....it passed through and took the animal in the spine...down it went.

 

[BobT]

I have a couple of boxes of those old 300 grain Hornady steel jacketed round nose solids. I have been loading them to about 1100 fps with Trail Boss for very accurate plinking loads. I have also loaded them up to around 2400 fps for practice loads.