New double rifle caliber, 416 Rigby No. 2

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by Bullhunter, May 29, 2019.

  1. Bullhunter

    Bullhunter AH Veteran

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    A new (and interesting) caliber for double rifles, for the international market.
     

  2. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    No interest here, since there is no text or pix. Oh Well.
     
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  3. Travis2282

    Travis2282 AH Enthusiast

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    Basically they just added a rim. Right?
     

  4. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    The 450 and 475 No 2 cases are nominally 3.5" long...so to hold true to form, they better stretch it a bit, as well!!
     

  5. Bullhunter

    Bullhunter AH Veteran

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    Rigby to release new calibre: the .416 Rigby No. 2



    More than two decades after the development of their last cartridge, London gunmaker John Rigby & Co. is set to release a new calibre, the .416 Rigby No. 2, which will be chambered in Rigby’s Rising Bite double rifles.



    Dr. Eckhard Stief, a passionate German hunter, rifle collector and avid fan of rifles, is the genius behind the design of this new and improved .416 Rigby No. 2 cartridge. Working hand-in-hand with Rigby, he has seen through the development of the new calibre from concept.


    As a keen cartridge developer, Dr. Stief has previously improved calibres for medium and small-sized game but four years ago decided that he would like to work on one last project - to develop an improved, more modern calibre for big game, so struck up the alliance with Rigby to see through the project.


    A fan of the .416 Rigby, Dr. Stief maintains that John Rigby who developed the original cartridge in 1911 was ahead of his time when he produced the calibre, adding that it can be compared to new modern age cartridges.



    Using the .416 Rigby’s original design, Dr. Stief has simply added a rim to the cartridge, to improve the extraction in double rifles, maintaining the same cartridge pressures and velocities.



    Dr. Stief commented: “I selected the .416 Rigby for development because it’s powerful for shooting big game and penetrates well but it can also be used on medium-sized game like kudu and oryx, making it a good all-rounder. For me the modern shape of the case and good shoulder is important, plus the neck is not so long like many older calibres and there is lots of bullets readily available. By not changing the mother cartridge, reloaders can use their normal reloading full die set, simply needing a new case holder and original published reloading data can be used, so long as their rifle is chambered for the calibre. I have simply selected today’s best calibre from the big game calibre group and added a rim, aiding cartridge extraction.”


    Marc Newton, the managing director of Rigby, added: “We are delighted to work with Dr. Stief, to develop a new Rigby calibre for our Rising Bite rifles. By adding a rim to the original .416 Rigby it modernises the cartridge and brings it into 21st century.”
     

  6. Bullhunter

    Bullhunter AH Veteran

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    [​IMG]
     

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  7. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    And to think, it only took them 100 years.

    Beautiful looking cartridge, by the way, much more well proportioned than the .500/.416, if you ask me. I'm interested in seeing the CIP drawing of the case and chamber.
     
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  8. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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  9. AZDAVE

    AZDAVE AH Elite

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    Nice looking round, Just hope other manufactures produce rifles and the ammo makers also produce rounds. The round doesn't have a parent brass and is completely original so you can't from brass from anything else. Unless I missed something in my research.

    I really appreciate Rigby's products, however they are way to expensive for my budget unless I hit the lottery.
     
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  10. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Will be interesting to see the new rifle
     

  11. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I'm rather disappointed they did this on a couple of different fronts, sorry if I sound like a curmudgeon.

    First, they went 19th century Brit and added the No. 2 making more confusing rounds...if they had to do this, calling it 416 Rigby Flanged would have made it self-explanatory what it is.

    Second, the world doesn't need more double rifle cartridges, it needs far less of them. There is insufficient demand to overcome shortages and higher prices for components.

    Third, there was a perfectly good 500/416 in existence already. Probably more 416s I've forgotten already.

    Fourth, the headstamp rules. Every time you make a new cartridge, they always say how easy it is to form brass from XYZ...yet you have to get proper headstamped brass for it or its worthless. We are at present reliant on 4 businesses being afloat to ensure that double rifles can get brass: Quality Cartridge, Jamison, Bell, and Norma. (the latter making most other brands of brass private label)

    And fifth, the point of the .416 is rather lost on the double rifle. The 416 shoots quite flat, allowing the use of a scoped .416 Rigby to be used at longer distances for plains game while still functioning for dangerous game. Making it a 416 double rifle neuters its long-range efficacy while providing nothing superior at close distances that what already exists with the 400H&H, the 404J, the 450NE, the 465NE etc, etc, etc.

    I think Rigby is a great firm and I like Rigby calibers too, I just don't think this "innovation" helps sportsman take more game, have better access to supplies, or keeps the public safe from feeding the wrong cartridge into their rifle, it's a double-down on the problems we've got already listed above.
     

  12. Bailey Bradshaw

    Bailey Bradshaw AH Senior Member

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    Rookhawk,

    I agree with you on every point, but I am also kind of glad Rigby did this. It is long overdue that the most famous .416 had a rimmed brother.

    Rigby is on a roll, and this will no doubt sell more rifles for them. I would gladly chamber rifles for this round as long as ammo is available, which is the real issue for the rest of us. I think it is doubtful that a major ammo manufacturer will pick it up anytime soon. No one to sell to except the dozen or so Rigby rising bite owners that will have rifles chambered for it.

    What I do like about it is it's an instant classic being from Rigby and duplicating the old .416. That's important to double rifle guys. Nostalgia goes a long way, and perhaps has been the largest hurdle for the 500/416.

    In short, maybe it's my own sense of nostalgia that likes it, but a larger sense of practicality that has doubts about it ever becoming very widespread in the next decade.
     
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  13. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    I don’t see it in any way as a bad thing. If a person wants to be pragmatic about it, the global hunting population could get by with maybe a half-dozen cartridges (even fewer if negating rimmed versions for singles and doubles). Part of what I love about shooting (and hunting) is the great variety. We really didn't need another .416, and yeah it is a bit handicapped in a double, but it's still a wonderful cartridge. As for ammo or brass, if in the market buy as much as you can as soon as you can as there'll be an initial run, after which the supply may very well dry up for a while. I do, however, see the new .416 Rigby No. 2 as becoming more popular than the 500/416, for reasons mentioned above. Still won't be a lot of them around, though...
     

  14. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    Well I would have thought to someone of your extensive knowledge... the reason Rigby called it the .416 no2........follows the Rigby 350 No2... and Rigby. 275 No2 designations... as the rimmed rounds of the the rimless versions of those rounds...... And I love that they are doing this (y):D Beers:.......in a previous life I would have had one in each of those calibres....finished off with a .500 ....but then I like double rifles....
     
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  15. cmk

    cmk AH Veteran

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    Have to agree that this was an answer looking for a problem to solve - not really succeeding.. I know that Norma may be offering light loads in their factory ammo, but in their ordinary 416 Rigby ammo, they send a 400 grain A-frame at 2325, or a solid 400 (of their own making?) at 2375, or Woodleigh 450's at 2150.

    And in 500/416 they have Woodleigh 410's going at 2325 - almost identical to the 416 Rigby.

    If this new cartridge is aimed at duplicating the 416 Rigby, well... it's been done already.

    If you're a DoubleRifle guy/gal - your needs could probably be handled by either of the following existing calibres (.375FL or the 450/400, 450, 470 or 500NE).
    They have a proven track record and all the nostalgia you could ask for. And ammo/components could probably be found with just a little bit of searching.
     

  16. IvW

    IvW AH Legend

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    I would stick with a 450/400 NE or the 500/416 NE in double rifle...
     
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  17. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Perhaps, to be more popular they should have gone with the a more modern name:
    .416 Rigby 2.0 :ROFLMAO:
     
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  18. cmk

    cmk AH Veteran

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    While I do agree that individual preferences for this over that, and the interesting discussions it makes for, is one of the things that make our sport interesting. However this plethora of "new" cartridges does not really help or make it any better. For non-military use, I can't think of a single cartridge developed in the last 100 years that was really needed. As for my own guns the "newest" in terms of chamberings, is the 30-06.

    Not wishing to sound like a grumpy old man (but I guess I do :) )
     

  19. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    But not just any double. I believe that this is quite a premium double, no?
     

  20. K E Johnson

    K E Johnson AH Member

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    +John "Pondoro'' Taylor questioned why this had not been done in his African Rifles and Cartridges. Check pages 103 and 105 if you like. The name he called for was .416 #2 to match Rigby's other flanged cartridges as stated above.

    Does it fill a need? Depends on your pocket book!
     
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