New Double .577NE | 600NE | 700NE

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by petrusg, May 18, 2015.

  1. petrusg

    petrusg AH Elite

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    So after an interesting conversation with Mark Sullivan on doubles and makes the other day:

    "my grandmother shoots a .500NE and a .470NE is great for squirrels or rabbits"... "I don't allow Blaser or Krieghoff in my camp" (due to the way the safety mechanism works).

    I am stuck on the below: Hyem or Verney Carron in a .577NE
    .577 NE more practical in performance/weight/handling than 600NE. Given the option I would rather shoot a 700NE than a 600 due to better powder burn/speed from 50MBG primer with Somchem powder (what we have in RSA). Rifle Weight difference between 600 and 700 will more or less be the same.

    My choice will be 577NE

    What are your thoughts if you were to buy a new double for dangerous game hunting?
     

  2. enysse

    enysse AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Make sure the gun fits you perfect, any of the above guns is A LOT of POWER.
     

  3. AkMike

    AkMike AH Fanatic

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    Have Sullivan post a youtube video of his grandmother shooting a 500 NE.
     
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  4. James.Grage

    James.Grage AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Adriaan

    Which double rifle do you shoot best?

    Hyem makes a very good double rifle. I have not look at a Verney Carron, however i have heard good things about both makers.

    I would opt for the 470 NE or 500 NE both are very good rounds and if you do your part correctly dead is dead.
     
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  5. petrusg

    petrusg AH Elite

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    I enjoy the 470NE - but its now time for big brother :)
     
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  6. JacoS

    JacoS AH Legend

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    Mark gave myself and Eon Kok the same chirp about 12 years ago we were standing at our booth at the eastern outdoor show, when Mark casually approached and initiated conversation.

    Soon we ended up on stoppers Mark enquired as to what we were using I stated 460 weatherby, Eon 500 Jeffrey, Mark replied that his daughter shot a 500 Jeffrey......

    To which Eon replied..... Well Mark you must have a pretty stocky daughter!

    Needless to say the conversation ended right there....

    My personal opinion you can shoot what ever you like if the bullet does not hit the right place it's not dead.

    My best always
     

  7. Jono Joseph

    Jono Joseph AH Veteran

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    I agree with Jaco totally but i must say a big stick always feels good.
    I would go 577 that fits.... In the same breath that if you cant hit the spot you may as well through stones.
    I like both the hyme and the verni because they carry well.
    I shoot a blaser 470 NE and you must be fit to carry it at almost 6.5kg
    but it hits home and there is no serious recoil.

    My next will be a 577 that shoots the same.

    Shot Shot
     
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  8. Petrus Geldenhuys

    Petrus Geldenhuys AH Enthusiast

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    If you are constantly putting yourself in that situation (Like Sullivan) i do agree that when you make a mistake with a bigger calibre you might survive the situation, but a well placed bullet out of a smaller calibre is way better than a poorly placed shot out of a 600NE.
     

  9. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    adriaan depends on what animals you are going to use it for back up on . if you mostly have clients hunting ele, and as it looks like you like heaving weights about then the .577 would be the choice. if its only the odd ele and the rest is mostly buff , lion etc then the .500 would be the choice i think. it must be built to your measurements though so it comes up perfectly .
     
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  10. Jono Joseph

    Jono Joseph AH Veteran

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    Lots of people have mixed feelings about Mr Sullavan but i take my hat off the chap has a set of brass canon balls ....Shot Shot
     
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  11. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    mmmm........lets not get on to or about him as there is a thread already :)
     
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  12. TokkieM

    TokkieM AH Fanatic

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    :ROFLMAO::D:ROFLMAO: Did not know Mr. Sullivan was doing stand up comedy now!
    I shoot a 470NE,pretty much the limit of my recoil tolerance and abillity to put the bullet were I want it. Would I like a nice 600NE,sure!!! Would I shoot it enough and enjoy it as much as the 470NE,not so sure. I preffer to skin a animal with a small knife that fits my hand and abillity,could do it with a machete too.

    As said above bullet placement far outways caliber choice when it comes to the calibers mentioned by Mr. Sullivan. I would rather be surgically precise with a 470NE than in the ball park with a 700NE.

    Any well made double or bolt gun will only be as good as the man behind it, know the rifle use the rifle and know your abillity with it.Personally I am through with new guns,building a relationship with the old ones is more fun now:D
    Guess Mr. Sullivan and I won't be sharing a camp with my Krieghoff.

    Would not mind a nice Heym in 500NE though;)
     
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  13. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    .600 and/or .577 NE is no doubt good life insurance when hunting or guiding for ele, buff or hippo for that matter.

    I feel that the .600 is plagued by a bad rumour from bad bullets from the original solids supplied by Kynoch until the 1960s...with modern woodleighs it should be formidable..

    Have anyone done some penetration tests with the .600 and woodleighs..??

    I think the recoil from the .600 is very overrated.....I found it to be controllable in a 13,2 lbs double with full load modern Kynoch, ie the 900-110-7600 load..
     

  14. JacoS

    JacoS AH Legend

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    Adrian I disagree I constantly hunt DG more than Kudu every season....the true difference between 577NE the 460 WBY is negligable IMHO.
    When pushing 6000 Ft/lbs and upwards were splitting hairs, you might have a slight advantage on frontal bullet diameter but I doubt if it'll buy you time just on that.

    Personally I would then go the 550 magnum route... I have to admit when it comes from Mark I take it with a pinch of salt.

    He could possibly have a point as he use to be (note use to be) in the film industry which made for incredible viewing due to provoked charges, but I firmly believe it also compromised hunting in Africa.

    :)
     
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  15. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    Ivan Carter use a .600 Heym when guiding for ele...Karl Stumpfe has a .577 Heym for the same purpose..

    Perhaps it boils down to personal preference..
     

  16. JacoS

    JacoS AH Legend

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    It's very easy if those rifles are sponsored.... Preference is key that is correct....

    I do not understand how PH's can make statements with regards to ph's based on stoppers used... I guess that's the point I'm getting to...

    The 577 and 600 are in the minority when we take fully operational rather than pre madonna (magazine) or rather celebrity ph's into consideration.

    My best always
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
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  17. Jono Joseph

    Jono Joseph AH Veteran

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    I am sure with modern reloading you can make it happen, Northfolk or Pregrine will both have excellent bullets for both..

    Shot Shot
     
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  18. 500Nitro

    500Nitro New Member

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    ..Karl Stumpfe has a .577 Heym for the same purpose..

    Perhaps it boils down to personal preference..[/QUOTE]

    I may be wrong but I think Karl stumfe has a 577 Verney Carron.
     

  19. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Hi AdriaanW,

    If I was still man enought to carry such a rifle all day long over rough ground, in the heat of Africa, I should like to have a .577 NE double, with ejectors.

    However, I am too old for it now.
    Probably would not be any good with the recoil any way.

    I found the .600 NE to have less recoil than I had feared (properly built English double) prior to actually firing a left and a right from same but, still too much recoil for myself to train properly with it.

    I conversely found recoil from the .500 NE to be tolerable in the proper English double I fired shots from.

    The .500 handled like a grouse gun, in spite of its proper weight for this caliber.

    If I ever get the chance, I plan to try a .577 NE, just to round out my having fired many doubles, from .303 British, through .600 NE.

    Well anyway, in your avatar you appear very powerful / weight lifter type, and so if I were you, I would probably want the .577 NE.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
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  20. 500Nitro

    500Nitro New Member

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    I own a Krieghoff 500 as well as a VC in 600.

    I find the 500 fun to shoot and the recoil is more of a push then a shove.It is quite easy to shoot well.

    The 600 VC I have is not as bad as one would think as far as recoil is concerned,it certainly is more then the 500 but with some learning can be shot well and be fun to shoot as well,the rifle fits me very well .

    However at 14.5 pounds it does get heavy after an hour of tracking in the bush.I would think a 577 would be more practical.
     
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