My Hats off to Hornady

IdaRam

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My opinion? The NRA is here to serve the gun manufacturing sector, not common people such as you or I (assuming you are, of course).
I have refrained from additional comment because I haven’t seen any upside from doing so. We just have different opinions and beliefs.
But as someone who is “in” the gun manufacturing sector, and also very much a common person, I would be interested to hear why you feel the NRA serves gun manufacturers and not common people.
What I’m hearing is that the NRA is the lap dog of the firearms manufacturers. Well, I certainly think the NRA does try to safeguard the interests of the firearms industry, but you seem to be implying, or saying?, that the NRA does that to the detriment of the “common people”? If I have that correct, would you be willing to elaborate on that please?
Thank you
 

008

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A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Honestly, my interpretation may differ slightly from others in 2018 but I had a great discussion with a constitutional scholar a couple of months ago that helped shape it.

All obvious points understood, our government is for the people and BY the people. To me, the second amendment affords me the ability to arm myself and ultimately use force if tyranny of the populous should attempt to infringe on any of my rights, including the right to bear arms. A minority position if not shielded can lead to a loss of protections.

The tyranny I see today is a subsect of liberal Americans who don’t understand my heritage and way of life and are actively trying to disarm fellow Americans and in many cases, end associated activities including hunting. These folks tend to believe they are inherently correct and know better. This point of view is that deadly mixture of arrogance and ignorance that leads to thinking everyone of intelligence and education believes as they do.

While the NRA may not be perfect, it is currently our first line of defense. If you disagree with their strategy, motives or effectiveness, start a complimentary organization or join and promote change from within.
 

IdaRam

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A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Honestly, my interpretation may differ slightly from others in 2018 but I had a great discussion with a constitutional scholar a couple of months ago that helped shape it.

All obvious points understood, our government is for the people and BY the people. To me, the second amendment affords me the ability to arm myself and ultimately use force if tyranny of the populous should attempt to infringe on any of my rights, including the right to bear arms. A minority position if not shielded can lead to a loss of protections.

The tyranny I see today is a subsect of liberal Americans who don’t understand my heritage and way of life and are actively trying to disarm fellow Americans and in many cases, end associated activities including hunting. These folks tend to believe they are inherently correct and know better. This point of view is that deadly mixture of arrogance and ignorance that leads to thinking everyone of intelligence and education believes as they do.

While the NRA may not be perfect, it is currently our first line of defense. If you disagree with their strategy, motives or effectiveness, start a complimentary organization or join and promote change from within.
SPOT ON!
 

bilmcc

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Who is the NRA working with to reduce gun violence?
 

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bilmcc

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Not sure what you’re looking for but the NRA has quite a few safety programs including some discussed on this thread like school shield where they work with the school districts. Here’s a partial list of safety initiatives on their website:
https://explore.nra.org/interests/safety-and-education/
This is helpful. I seldom see anything in the open about these. I know they used to be strong in shooting/gun safety. I will see if I can find some participation numbers. I also do not see collaboration in addressing gun violence on a societal level. The chapters around me only sing one song.
 

GuttormG

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The tyranny I see today is a subsect of liberal Americans who don’t understand my heritage and way of life and are actively trying to disarm fellow Americans and in many cases, end associated activities including hunting. These folks tend to believe they are inherently correct and know better. This point of view is that deadly mixture of arrogance and ignorance that leads to thinking everyone of intelligence and education believes as they do

Widespread in the western world this threat. The results of politicians who were educated and trained as politicians andas a result has very little real life experience and even less contact with the average citizen.
As a bonus a silent take-over of the schools has happend, they are under the control of a group of people wth very "feminin" values and "open minds". Low score in math? No problem, wejust lower the bar so everybody feels good.
In Europe comunism is also on the rise again, disguised as "green" parties and politicians.

Interesting future...
 
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Good for Hornady, if all the firearm and ammunition manufactures refused to sell to the state of New York I'm sure the New York state government would rethink their position.

@CTDolan, I've read your other posts expressing your opinion on the NRA and I don't understand them. I've been a Life Member of the NRA for 37 years and I have not noticed a change in their stance on defending the 2nd Amendment, you call it hard line, I call it correct. Would you expect the ACLU to say "Its only a small civil right violation, we don't need to do anything about it" both groups exist to protect our individual rights granted to us under the Constitution of the United States. The next time you post your thoughts on the NRA and their "Hard Line Stance" please include some of your thoughts and ideas on what they could do better, without giving up my individual right to own firearms as confirmed by the Supreme Court. Thanks for your posts and the willingness to express your opinion.
@Art Lambert II
Mate I can see the police saying to the mayor or governor, sorry we didn't stop that homicide, armed robbery, ( insert crime of choice) but we didn't have any bullets for our guns. What were we supposed to do pull out our service weapon and yell stop or I WILL SHOOT then yell out BANG BANG I got you like we did when we were kids.
It would make for easy arrests as the criminals would be rolling on the ground in fits of laughter.

Yes unarmed police may work in some countries like England but they have a different breed of criminal (usually unarmed)
Is about time people, workplaces and others stood up to these idiots.
Money talks don't support those institutions that want this change. Go to others that want your business. How much money would master card loose if shooters changed allegiance to a credit company that support ALL people without discrimination.
Just my ramblings.
Bob
 
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Research the history of school shootings in the UK. And, while at it, look into Australia’s history, also. 1996 was a particularly bad year in this regard for each, and they did something about it, and it hasn’t happened since.
@CTDolan
Australia sure did something about it. Jackboot John Howard banned ALL semi-automatic weapons in a knee-jerk reaction to Joe Publics out cry. Instead of blaming the shooter he tried to disarm the people.
Fortunately this didn't work and we now have more licensed firearms owners than ever before and it is growing.

There is a brilliant book on a conspiracy by the government to disarm Australia. One politician is supposed to have said the only way it can be done is to have a massacre in a certain state. The book even goes to explain the accuracy of the shooter was not humanly possible for even a trained SAS soldier. It is a very interesting read but was banned by our government.
Yes I am a proud gun owning Australian and have read the book.
Bob
 
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My fear is that the numbers are not on our side. Despite the fact that there are more guns in circulation than ever, only about 30 percent of the population owns a gun (about 60 percent of the population lives in a home which has no firearms whatsoever). Further (and perhaps worse), only about 5 percent of the population hunts. We are in the minority and in a democratic system (to the extent ours actually is...there is a valid argument against) that is a recipe for loss. Therefore, one must appeal to sentiment (to sway the broader electorate) and this is the beef I have with the NRA as, with regard to the general population, the majority, their hard-nosed stance (which most see as heartless pandering to the gun manufacturing sector) has led to a loss of respect, in some cases to the point of revulsion. The outliers, the radicals on the fringe make a lot of noise and all but it’s the sensible ones in the middle whom we stand to lose if we do not show a willingness to consider alternatives.
@CTDolan
For things to succeed there has to be give and take on both sides. The NRA needs to say to the government we see your point and give in on some things. The GOVERNMENT needs to acknowledge this and say ok we will do A and concede to B.
This works well in Australia because of the shooters, fishers and farmers party conceding to some government policy in return for passing things they want. We have been successful in opening up millions of acres of state forrest for hunting. Sure we lost our semi-autos but we have a bucket load of MORE areas to hunt.
Bob
 
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A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Honestly, my interpretation may differ slightly from others in 2018 but I had a great discussion with a constitutional scholar a couple of months ago that helped shape it.

All obvious points understood, our government is for the people and BY the people. To me, the second amendment affords me the ability to arm myself and ultimately use force if tyranny of the populous should attempt to infringe on any of my rights, including the right to bear arms. A minority position if not shielded can lead to a loss of protections.

The tyranny I see today is a subsect of liberal Americans who don’t understand my heritage and way of life and are actively trying to disarm fellow Americans and in many cases, end associated activities including hunting. These folks tend to believe they are inherently correct and know better. This point of view is that deadly mixture of arrogance and ignorance that leads to thinking everyone of intelligence and education believes as they do.

While the NRA may not be perfect, it is currently our first line of defense. If you disagree with their strategy, motives or effectiveness, start a complimentary organization or join and promote change from within.
@008
What is the definition of a well regulated militia. An extreme white supremacist group armed to the teeth may be well regulated by it's internal structure BUT is that the type you want.
A well regulated militia is a great idea in theory but where it falls down is who makes the rules on what the regulations are to be followed. To me your National Gaurd is a regulated militia that is supposed to be for the good of ALL people. Whereas a white supremacist group isn't for the good of ALL people.
While I do support the 2nd amendment who regulates what is a well regulated militia.
Bob
 
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This is helpful. I seldom see anything in the open about these. I know they used to be strong in shooting/gun safety. I will see if I can find some participation numbers. I also do not see collaboration in addressing gun violence on a societal level. The chapters around me only sing one song.
@bilmcc.
To address gun violence on a societal level we must first look at what are the problems within that society e.g. homelessness, low socioeconomic factors , employment opportunities and a plethora of other factors. If these are addressed we will see a reduction in gun violence.
While we have racism, large variances in wages and a government that want to suppress the people we will never have gun control. Society is fluid in these times with people moving all over the world and societal values are constantly changing at a place we can no longer comprehend. Just look at the way children think in this technological age and how easy they are influenced thru social media both for the good and bad compared to 20 years ago.
May be it's about time we opened a different song book to try and understand this new and ever changing and evolving society so we can make SENSIBLE AND INFORMED change.
This may be an idealistic statement but we as humans have the ability to do it.
Bob
 

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Steve Hornady basically told Andrew Cuomo and the State of NY that they are no longer a customer of his ammunition.

My hats off to anybody that is willing to loose money over a principle they believe in.
https://www.tactical-life.com/news/hornady-new-york-agencies-ammo/


MAY 2, 2018
Hornady Will No Longer Sell Ammo to New York Agencies


HORNADY IS CLOSING THE DOOR ON SELLING AMMUNITION TO NEW YORK GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AFTER THE STATE IS ORDERING BANKS AND INSURERS TO 'REVIEW' ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NRA AND GUN AND AMMO MAKERS.

By
TACTICAL-LIF

Photo by Wikimedia Commons
Hornady Will No Longer Sell Ammo to New York Agencies
Hornady-New-York-1-150x150.1525207159.jpg

Hornady-New-York-2-150x150.1525207161.jpg


Hornady has announced it will no longer sell its ammunition to New York government agencies, citing the state’s heavy-handed, anti-gun tactics as the reason for the shift in company policy.

Cuomo’s Order
In an April press release, Gov. Andrew Cuomo ordered the state Department of Financial Services (DFS) to “urge” New York-based banks, insurers and other financial institutions to “review” their relationships with the NRA and “other similar organizations.” Said banks and insurers would then be “encouraged” to think about whether or not “such ties harm their corporate reputations and jeopardize public safety.”

“New York may have the strongest gun laws in the country, but we must push further to ensure that gun safety is a top priority for every individual, company, and organization that does business across the state,” Governor Cuomo said.“I am directing the Department of Financial Services to urge insurers and bankers statewide to determine whether any relationship they may have with the NRA or similar organizations sends the wrong message to their clients and their communities who often look to them for guidance and support. This is not just a matter of reputation, it is a matter of public safety, and working together, we can put an end to gun violence in New York once and for all.”

Post-Parkland
The presser also noted that many businesses have ended relationships with the NRA in the wake of Parkland. These include MetLife, a DFS-regulated insurer that shut down a discount program it offered to NRA members. In addition, Chubb stopped underwriting the NRA Carry Guard insurance program.

“Corporations are demonstrating that business can lead the way and bring about the kind of positive social change needed to minimize the chance that we will witness more of these senseless tragedies. DFS urges all insurance companies and banks doing business in New York to join the companies that have already discontinued their arrangements with the NRA, and to take prompt actions to manage these risks and promote public health and safety,” DFS Superintendent Maria T. Vullo said

Comptroller
Meanwhile, the New York Post reports that State Comptroller Thomas J. DiNapoli recently sent letters to nine different financial institutions, encouraging them to devise “a system that could reject the purchases” of guns, ammunition and accessories. The letters went out to MasterCard, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Discover, American Express, First Data, and Worldpay.

Furthermore, DiNapoli is the head of the New York state pension, which has an estimated $209.1 billion in assets. It also happens to have a stake in all nine of the aforementioned companies.

“I am writing to express my concern that Mastercard may suffer reputational harm because it allows its banking services to be used in firearms transactions,” DiNapoli reportedly wrote.

Hornady Strikes Back
Viewing all this as an assault on its business and livelihood, Hornady confirmed via Facebook that its ammo will no longer be available to New York agencies.

“The State of New York did one of the most despicable acts ever perpetrated by any state by asking New York banks, financial institutions and insurance companies to stop doing business with the gun and ammo industry. While it may not make a difference to New York, Hornady will not knowingly allow our ammunition to be sold to the Government of the State of NY or any NY State agencies,” said Steve Hornady, President of Hornady Manufacturing.

Hornady deemed the state’s actions as “a blatant and disgusting abuse of office.” The company also said it “won’t be associated with a government that acts like that. They should be ashamed.”

Hornady will do just fine without New York’s business; the FBI recently awarded the Nebraska-based outfit a contract for its 9mm+P Luger 135 gr. FlexLock Critical Duty ammunition. In addition, its ammunition remains popular with government agencies and civilian shooters nationwide.
Ah, wokeness has consequences. Attack the NRA and attack lawful gun owners, e.g. look what happened to Dick Smiths
 

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@008
What is the definition of a well regulated militia. An extreme white supremacist group armed to the teeth may be well regulated by it's internal structure BUT is that the type you want.
A well regulated militia is a great idea in theory but where it falls down is who makes the rules on what the regulations are to be followed. To me your National Gaurd is a regulated militia that is supposed to be for the good of ALL people. Whereas a white supremacist group isn't for the good of ALL people.
While I do support the 2nd amendment who regulates what is a well regulated militia.
Bob

Any government controlled organisation, such as US National Guard, can not protect the people against the tyranny of the government. It is axiomatic that in order to protect the people from government’s tyranny the militia must be independent from the government.
 

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@008
What is the definition of a well regulated militia. An extreme white supremacist group armed to the teeth may be well regulated by it's internal structure BUT is that the type you want.
A well regulated militia is a great idea in theory but where it falls down is who makes the rules on what the regulations are to be followed. To me your National Gaurd is a regulated militia that is supposed to be for the good of ALL people. Whereas a white supremacist group isn't for the good of ALL people.
While I do support the 2nd amendment who regulates what is a well regulated militia.
Bob
In historical context, it means ”well armed” or “well equipped”, not regulated in a modern interpretation which some read as government oversight.

The first part of the sentence is simply a justification for the second part, which is the intention of the amendment. Language, both syntax and lexicon, change with the passage of time. Many believe, if it were to be drafted today, it would have just said “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

That being said, America faces many challenges that are unique to it based on its founding, history, and ever changing demographics. What works elsewhere, may not here and vice versa. Lastly, as was pointed out by Opposite Pole, the government is not capable of performing this right as it is one of the forces this is designed to protect against. We are citizens, not subjects. The second amendment was included in the Bill of Rights to help keep it that way.
 

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Steve Hornady basically told Andrew Cuomo and the State of NY that they are no longer a customer of his ammunition.

My hats off to anybody that is willing to loose money over a principle they believe in.
https://www.tactical-life.com/news/hornady-new-york-agencies-ammo/


MAY 2, 2018
Hornady Will No Longer Sell Ammo to New York Agencies


HORNADY IS CLOSING THE DOOR ON SELLING AMMUNITION TO NEW YORK GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AFTER THE STATE IS ORDERING BANKS AND INSURERS TO 'REVIEW' ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NRA AND GUN AND AMMO MAKERS.

By
TACTICAL-LIF

Photo by Wikimedia Commons
Hornady Will No Longer Sell Ammo to New York Agencies
Hornady-New-York-1-150x150.1525207159.jpg

Hornady-New-York-2-150x150.1525207161.jpg


Hornady has announced it will no longer sell its ammunition to New York government agencies, citing the state’s heavy-handed, anti-gun tactics as the reason for the shift in company policy.

Cuomo’s Order
In an April press release, Gov. Andrew Cuomo ordered the state Department of Financial Services (DFS) to “urge” New York-based banks, insurers and other financial institutions to “review” their relationships with the NRA and “other similar organizations.” Said banks and insurers would then be “encouraged” to think about whether or not “such ties harm their corporate reputations and jeopardize public safety.”

“New York may have the strongest gun laws in the country, but we must push further to ensure that gun safety is a top priority for every individual, company, and organization that does business across the state,” Governor Cuomo said.“I am directing the Department of Financial Services to urge insurers and bankers statewide to determine whether any relationship they may have with the NRA or similar organizations sends the wrong message to their clients and their communities who often look to them for guidance and support. This is not just a matter of reputation, it is a matter of public safety, and working together, we can put an end to gun violence in New York once and for all.”

Post-Parkland
The presser also noted that many businesses have ended relationships with the NRA in the wake of Parkland. These include MetLife, a DFS-regulated insurer that shut down a discount program it offered to NRA members. In addition, Chubb stopped underwriting the NRA Carry Guard insurance program.

“Corporations are demonstrating that business can lead the way and bring about the kind of positive social change needed to minimize the chance that we will witness more of these senseless tragedies. DFS urges all insurance companies and banks doing business in New York to join the companies that have already discontinued their arrangements with the NRA, and to take prompt actions to manage these risks and promote public health and safety,” DFS Superintendent Maria T. Vullo said

Comptroller
Meanwhile, the New York Post reports that State Comptroller Thomas J. DiNapoli recently sent letters to nine different financial institutions, encouraging them to devise “a system that could reject the purchases” of guns, ammunition and accessories. The letters went out to MasterCard, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Discover, American Express, First Data, and Worldpay.

Furthermore, DiNapoli is the head of the New York state pension, which has an estimated $209.1 billion in assets. It also happens to have a stake in all nine of the aforementioned companies.

“I am writing to express my concern that Mastercard may suffer reputational harm because it allows its banking services to be used in firearms transactions,” DiNapoli reportedly wrote.

Hornady Strikes Back
Viewing all this as an assault on its business and livelihood, Hornady confirmed via Facebook that its ammo will no longer be available to New York agencies.

“The State of New York did one of the most despicable acts ever perpetrated by any state by asking New York banks, financial institutions and insurance companies to stop doing business with the gun and ammo industry. While it may not make a difference to New York, Hornady will not knowingly allow our ammunition to be sold to the Government of the State of NY or any NY State agencies,” said Steve Hornady, President of Hornady Manufacturing.

Hornady deemed the state’s actions as “a blatant and disgusting abuse of office.” The company also said it “won’t be associated with a government that acts like that. They should be ashamed.”

Hornady will do just fine without New York’s business; the FBI recently awarded the Nebraska-based outfit a contract for its 9mm+P Luger 135 gr. FlexLock Critical Duty ammunition. In addition, its ammunition remains popular with government agencies and civilian shooters nationwide.
Wheels ,
if I might may still add a (OT) supplement:
I would not sell gasoline to the Greens anymore.
I am happy about their ethusiasm to save the world by bicycle. :cool:
 
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Also don't respond to their 911 calls, don't let them in the gym or the hairdresser and don't sell them steak.
@kevin Peacoke
You would have a hard time selling a steak to one of those vegan eating, soy latte drinking tree hugging and chardonnay sipping fools.
If they actually ate a steak they would have to undergo trauma counseling for months and be treated for greenie ptsd for the rest of their pathetic lives.
Bob
 

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