My .404 Jeffery is home

[spike.t]

,I,d love to show of some of my sporters

Rob get the photos on here then.

 

[nztimb]

Been posted before but here is mine built on a 1950's FN

Full noise with 350gn cast bullet at 2415fps over 87gn H4350

Really quite accurate with the aperture sights as well.

 

[enysse]

That is one accurate rifle Von Gruff! It's practically a perfect gun for ME ! It's a beauty!!!

 

[Nyati]

That is one accurate rifle Von Gruff! It's practically a perfect gun for ME ! It's a beauty!!!

Definitely, a real beauty !!!

 

[Rob404]

Rob get the photos on here then.

While not up to the Caliber of the Battleship Calibers you guys Fire but if looks could kill then this Old Obendorf in 7MM Rem should do the trick,,,I,m the Headmaster of the Minnesota school for Wayward Mausers ,,this guy needed some major League TLC it was part of an Estate and because the Barrel had several caliber stamps on it nobody was sure what it was,,but a Barrel cast took care of that Mystery.

 

[enysse]

Rob44, another beautiful rifle, I love the 7mm Rem Mag.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Very interesting discussion.
All the best.
Witold

 

[paladin100]

Mmmmmm, I'm loving all of this as I have a 404 on a Mauser action coming along. Hopefully be ready early 2016 for a hunt in South Africa, or even better, chasing - and catching - that elusive Eland in Zim.
Thank you gentlemen.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

All the best Paladin.
Witold

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Something I am interested in: British company build the 404 Jeffery ( maybe blue print designed was in 1904??)
So can this be where the 404 Jeffery `s caliber arrives from.......40 Caliber blue printed/designed in 1904??? .40 caliber +1904 = 404 Jeffery???
Another issue I need members to clarify:
Jeffery developed /designed the 404 Jeffery .....why is there a German equivalent , 10.75 x 73 mm caliber build by the Germans?
Who really has build designed this caliber, I really would like members who are from Germany and from England or any historical knowledgeable person who is clued up on rifle caliber history give me answers please????

 

[Tucketed]

I believe the .404 Jeffery the nomenclature stands for 4 rounds in the magazine.

 

[Tucketed]

Actually I miss spoke 1 and chamber 3 in magazine.

 

[Foxi]

Gentlemen, thank you kindly for the kind words regarding my new 80 years old rifle. It surely is a pleasure to have this rifle in my possession. Keep in mind that we really never own a rifle , we are only guardians, to guard over and cherish our precious possessions. These rifles will in later years be transfer to other guardians , whom we always hope will have compassion and love for these grand old rifles as we currently have. Regarding the 80 old ammo, I am enjoying shooting history, enjoying their performances, the long flame from the barrel, the back draft whipping around my face and ears...adrenalin rush,the push of the rifle butt in my shoulder, rocking me backwards it is beautiful .....:clapping::clapping:

Regarding the old ammunition, the Kynog ammo has Brendan primers , so it is not possible/worth the effort to reload it. That I will give up for collectors, but the other ammo is made to shoot, reload and hunt with it, as Mr Von Graff stated , we use it as it is attended to be used, no regrets, just pure honest fun. I will upload more photos of the rifle , especially when I shoot it to show you the long flame it sprouts from its business end.

Congrats to the neat rifle,looking very good and not so used.
The checkering (right word?) seems sharp.
Im happy for you,that you cant reload this old brass.
The pressure of our powder today is much different.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I believe the .404 Jeffery the nomenclature stands for 4 rounds in the magazine.

Tucketed, this is interesting...any literature available to verify this...this is something no one could figured out yet..I would really like to get to the bottom of this question..since the British had the .303 caliber , maybe the 404 seems good to use...the .40 part as the caliber makes sense to me...4 being the total rounds the magazine takes..my 404 Jeffery only takes 3 rounds ..but I can push one extra into the chamber and close the bolt...so the 505 Gibbs maybe the .50 cal and five rounds in the magazine..no, this does not seems to be correct...any one else have an explanation members to solve this conundrum???

 

[nztimb]

While there are no notes as to why or how the 404 Jeffery wasnamed as such, dont forget that the cartridge was developed for the bolt rifle platform to emulate the double rifle 450-400 and as a waay of "modernising" the naming as well as the concept there were the multiple influencers with the US having just named their new military cartridge the 30-03 the year before, and it being 1904 when design was completed (rifles marketed 1905) that the 40 cal from 1904 seems to me to be a logical reasoning for naming the cartridge as the 404 with the second 0 left out to connect it to the British 303. While there may have been 4 40 cal cartridges able to be carried in the rifle, 404 seems a clumsy application of that concept with the 4 cartridge aspect heavily noted in the advertising of the day as was the modernity of the cartridge being rimless as opposed to the general rimmed big bore cartridges of the day.

 

[nztimb]

Jeffery developed /designed the 404 Jeffery .....why is there a German equivalent , 10.75 x 73 mm caliber build by the Germans?
Who really has build designed this caliber, I really would like members who are from Germany and from England or any historical knowledgeable person who is clued up on rifle caliber history give me answers please????

C&P from another platform to answer your question Gert


Originally posted by ALF:

The caliber .423 ( 10.75) is old BP European, the case is British, the load on original form is British. The caliber originally was not 423 but 422 as per the Birmingham proof house records

Why do I claim that it's not German:

Propellant used:

Stick nitro ! The Germans went BP then Flake, no intermediate in the form of Stick Nitro as the English did, and to boot the Germans went flake with the 7x57 when the Brits were still smoking the world up with BP.

From inception ? 1904 introduced 1905 the 404 was Stick Nitro unitll about 1926 when the Germans load for it in Flake.

The second pointer is bullet weight.

Unlike modern wildcatters the Germans did not simply take a existing case, tweak and load, they, true to their reputation for precision actually worked out loads and optimal bullet weight mathematically and verified loads in ballistics labs. They were very proud of these facilities and rightly so.

So you see the odd bullet mass choices in their original cartridges. The 10,75 x 68 is an example, it's optimal bullet weight for charge weight was mathematically deduced and verified in a lab.

The case: it's Jeffery 450-400 and the volume is to accomodate Nitro not Flake. If it were German and designed for the Mauser action size of the time the case would have ended up the same size as the 10,75 x 68.

The Germans did not extend action use beyond the dimensions of cartridges designated per action size. If and when they needed to use a large case cartridge they designed a special action to match or else they altered the case making it fatter and rebating the rim

So to get to the 404, if it were German it would have been loaded with flake and we would likely have seen a different optimal bullet weight and case size for it.

The forerunner of this cartridge is a 450 -400 Jeffery with the rim turned down and an extractor groove cut. The caliber of these specimens = .409

Cartridges exist for this but I know of no rifle in existance today chambered in this format. It also has the large cap Berdan Primer of the original 450-400 Jeffery.

The first commercial 404 was by Eley.

There are many fallacies about the 404 and one is that it came in many variations, this is not true, the cartridge itself retained it's basic dimension and caliber .422 and then later .423 from start to current, this based on the various drawings as submitted to the Birmingham Proof House over the years.

As too bore size now there are different sizes out there, the German derived barrels were all standard. The British Vickers barrels however were smaller diameter and the reason possibly two fold. The difference in the Way the Germans measured bore ( they did not designate bore as land to land, they went groove to groove ) Hence their propencity for larger bullets for caliber .

Secondly then the fact that the Brits were shooting Nitro and needed to opitimize on pressure.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Thank you kindly Von Gruff this info is much appreciated...

 

[Major Khan]

Something I am interested in: British company build the 404 Jeffery ( maybe blue print designed was in 1904??)
So can this be where the 404 Jeffery `s caliber arrives from.......40 Caliber blue printed/designed in 1904??? .40 caliber +1904 = 404 Jeffery???
Another issue I need members to clarify:
Jeffery developed /designed the 404 Jeffery .....why is there a German equivalent , 10.75 x 73 mm caliber build by the Germans?
Who really has build designed this caliber, I really would like members who are from Germany and from England or any historical knowledgeable person who is clued up on rifle caliber history give me answers please????

Gert, Sir Alfred Sharpe writes in his book that the .404 Jeffery is an English calibre designed by " Messrs Jeffrey & Co. " .
It must be borne in mind .... that Sir Alfred is the 1st documented user of the .404 Jeffery calibre , at the time he wrote that book .
I sincerely hope that you have found this information useful .

By the way , congratulations on the lovely .404 Jeffery calibre Mauser 98 action bolt rifle ! Does it have the magazine floor plate release catch located inside the trigger guard ? It is difficult to tell from the angle of the photographs.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Gert, Sir Alfred Sharpe writes in his book that the .404 Jeffery is an English calibre designed by " Messrs Jeffrey & Co. " .
It must be borne in mind .... that Sir Alfred is the 1st documented user of the .404 Jeffery calibre , at the time he wrote that book .
I sincerely hope that you have found this information useful .

By the way , congratulations on the lovely .404 Jeffery calibre Mauser 98 action bolt rifle ! Does it have the magazine floor plate release catch located inside the trigger guard ? It is difficult to tell from the angle of the photographs.

Thank you Major Khan, I appreciate the information very much..the 404 Jeffery I have do have a standard magazine plate release ...will upload photos for you when I am at the gunsmith shop