Minor issue or life Threatening Problem???

hgr2

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Been working with my M70 Safari Express 416 at my practice range for an upcoming Buff hunt in Zimbabwe this August and have started to have some troubling events occur.
While working the bolt at rapid speeds, sometimes one or more of the rounds in the magazine will just eject themselves while the bolt is at it’s most rearward position. I know this is not the way this system is designed to function. I have several M70s with pre64 style actions from 260 on up and have never had this happen before.
Can someone please shed some light on a fix for this?? My first thought is to find a more powerful magazine spring that will increase the upward pressure on the feed lips to prevent this from happening. Is this a valid fix?
Thanks, hgr2
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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I have only read of this problem in other rifles and it's been awhile. But I think you're on the right track if my memory serves corrrectly. Makes sense if the rounds are sort of floating and therefore may be able to shift around under the conditions of working the bolt more severely.

Whatever the case, I would check with your gunsmith and get it resolved soon.
 

hgr2

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Thanks Phill,
It seems that there are few here that have been effected by this malady.(I’m really lucky this way) I hope to make a good shot that will require no follow up
The hunt will go on nonetheless and will be waiting for advise from the members here.
Thanks, hgr2
 

ornery

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hgr2, post a couple of pics of the mag loaded or pm me and I'll try to help...Bill
 

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I went to a heavier spring on my M70 375 as I had that issue occur 2 or 3 times. Hasn't occured since and never had the same issue with my 416.458 WM or Lott.
 

hgr2

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Thanks for the responses guys. I have been studying this situation and have consulted with a couple Winchester guys and have placed an order for a 458 magazine box. Not exactly sure what the dimentional differences are yet but I'm expecting not to see the dimples on each side of the existing one(stamped 1450) and hopefully expose more of the rails in the reciever to the opening in the 458 mag box. As the blind man said, we will see.
 

Parsons

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The rails not contacting enough of the round could also be the cause. Of course Do the magbox/ follower spring first. Apples to oranges kinda but I know when opening up a mauser actions feed lips to far the round can slip up and out like you are saying. Winchester design is based on mauser so this could happen but doubtful on factory gun made for the round.
 

hgr2

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OK guys,

the 458 mag box was a bust!! I should have researched the length between the 416 and 458 before ordering the box. There is a spacer in the back of the box I received making it too short for 416 rds and my follower wont work either.
I did find another mag spring that seems to be a little stronger and so far when cycling dummy rounds none have jumped out.
Tomorrow I will give it a real live fire workout.
 

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Fingers crossed it's the spring, you should be able to return the mag box I'd think.
 

hgr2

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OK Guys, here’s the latest.
After much research I called the guys over at Sunny Hill Bottom Metal and had them send me an oversized custom follower they make. The hump in the middle of the follower
Is closer to the ejection port side than the factory follower.
It‘s a really nice part that has lots of extra material on it to fit several applications. After receiving it I did what any good oilfield hand would do and got a good sharp file after it.
After removing lots of extra material and adding an extra bevel the dislodging round problem seems to have disappeared. The last round in the mag now sits perfectly
Under the receiver rail for the full length of the cartridge and feeds flawlessly with both solids and softs. I will put it thru live fire paces this weekend and am planning on shooting another
hundred or so rounds at my practice range in the next 3 weeks before we leave for Zimbabwe. I feel really confident with this rifle now.
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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I sense a sigh of relief.
 

hgr2

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I sense a sigh of relief.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes!!!
Tomorrow will be the first live fire test,
I must admit I have been awakened in a cold sweat more than once but am confident things are going to be just fine. Report to follow.
hgr2
 

hgr2

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I think the fix is in!!
the m70 functioned flawlessly today. The dreaded last round of death has disappeared. I shot off the sticks and smacked a steel plate at 140 yrds then quickly shot a paper target off hand at 70yrds then as fast as I could fire on a target at 25yrds with good results. On a reloading note, I opened a new 8 pound jug of Varget that will be used on this hunt and my velocity increased by 85 FPS with the same charge weight!! I guess that first batch of powder was considerably slower than this new one. My velocity is now +- 2380. From the bench grouping with the 400gr A-Frames and the 400gr DGS were within about 1 inch of each other with the DGS a little low right but all 10 shots were within 4 inches at 100 yrds. Going back first thing in the morning and hopefully be better on the trigger than today. I was wanking a bit with the mental anticipation of the new velocity.
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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Way to stick with it and get it figured out!
 

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Way to stick with it and get it figured out!
Thanks for the info. The whole time reading I was thinking feed rails. As in most factory built guns they are mad just kinda close enough....to fit several applications and not really always the best...good for sonney hill and thanks for sharing all this.
 

James.Grage

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A true Bull Rider...

Looks like a good Buff was taken...
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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Nice bull, sure looks like a big hole was made in the lungs!
 

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hgr2

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Double lung shot it was, we were on a rocky hill about 30 feet higher than the Buff. The scouts and trackers had driven them several miles toward us from one end of a peninsula that extended out into lake Kariba, they came right in the middle of the narrow end that joined the mainland. They weren't running but they were on a steady brisk walk. I estimate my first shot was +-90 yards. The first round was on the point of the right shoulder. The 400gr A-frame went thru both lungs just above the hart. We recovered the bullet on the off side armpit. The bullet preformed beautifully which is more than I can say for the 400gr DGS.

In this pic, I am pointing at the entrance hole of my first shot. Look back behind that and notice the 2 exit holes that are sideways. Those were finishing shots from my buddies 416 Taylor from about 30 yards. They exited completely sideways and part of the lead core had extruded out the bottom of the bullet. That ain't good!!

Zim pics 196.JPG
 
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PHOENIX PHIL

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Well the first shot did it's job and it was a dead buff standing. May I suggest North Fork or Cutting Edge Bullets for solids. Their flat point solids are known for straight line penetration.
 
 

 

 

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