Mark Sullivan the Expose’

[SLG]

By the way, the reason I found this thread is because I was trying to find Mark's website. I had corresponded with him briefly a few years ago and his email does not work either. Anyone have any idea how to get in touch with him?

 

[375Fox]

There is nothing wrong with that, but it is your choice to avoid a possible charge. Mark wants a charge if possible. Why is that wrong? I have seen nothing to support the claims that he injures them in some way to provoke a charge, so until evidence is presented, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. He also says that out of 100 buffalo, only 5 will charge, regardless of his desire.

I don't know Craig or Mark, but I would guess that Mark not only has way more experience than Craig, he also hunts them differently. If the goal is to stay far enough away so that you are not likely to be in danger, than so be it. I would guess that is the case with most of Craig's Buffalo, and probably yours as well. Nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand, if you want that 5% to charge, then you walk up and shoot from 10 feet. How far away were you for your initial 2 shots and then the third? Numbers of game hunted only tell a small portion of the tale. Deer kill people every year (not including cars), yet no one thinks deer are dangerous. If you get too close to most wild animals, they may very well attack instead of fleeing. There are hunters with way more experience than Mark or Craig, who have talked about this. Guys who have shot upwards of 6 THOUSAND dangerous game. Crazy.

It’s wrong because he does stunts that would get him fired from any respected outfitter. The PH is there to ensure a safe hunt for everyone in the hunting party not instigate a charge. Insurance shots on the ground would have eliminated several of his charges/unnecessary dangerous situations but then they can’t be on film. There are so many great PHs I don’t understand why Mark Sullivan is even discussed anymore. He was a great promoter of himself though.

 

[SLG]

It’s wrong because he does stunts that would get him fired from any respected outfitter. The PH is there to ensure a safe hunt for everyone in the hunting party not instigate a charge. Insurance shots on the ground would have eliminated several of his charges/unnecessary dangerous situations but then they can’t be on film. There are so many great PHs I don’t understand why Mark Sullivan is even discussed anymore. He was a great promoter of himself though.

I think this must be where the disconnect is among the membership here. He is well known, famous even. That tends to draw fire and yet he has not been punished by any African hunting body or court afaik. Where do you get the proof for your first sentence?

Your second sentence has been covered many times. The clients are all ok with what is happening and if the law is ok with that, then why do you care? You don't have to risk yourself in any way, but they choose to. The rest falls under this as well.

 

[DieJager]

By the way, the reason I found this thread is because I was trying to find Mark's website. I had corresponded with him briefly a few years ago and his email does not work either. Anyone have any idea how to get in touch with him?

Nope. I've got his number via some AH members because I had correspondence with him in the past but no reaction. His email and website are offline. He gets the messages but he doesn't respond what is his good right.

I think he definitely retired and wish him the best. Loved his DVDs and wanted to buy his books but then noticed the website was offline. The used book market asks ridiculous prices for his books. When his website was still online I didn't bought them and I'll regret it to this day.

 

[SLG]

Sorry to hear that. I was lucky to get his books a few years ago and they are very high quality. Anyone who loves hunting or double rifles would enjoy them.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I think this must be where the disconnect is among the membership here. He is well known, famous even. That tends to draw fire and yet he has not been punished by any African hunting body or court afaik. Where do you get the proof for your first sentence?

Your second sentence has been covered many times. The clients are all ok with what is happening and if the law is ok with that, then why do you care? You don't have to risk yourself in any way, but they choose to. The rest falls under this as well.

I'll take a crack at that one @375Fox.

Proof for the first sentence? Um, his copious videos displaying judgment that would get him fired by any respectable outfitter. A picture is worth a thousand words?

Also the disconnect for me, with regards to your support of him and his methods is that first paragraph of your first post, about being an ethical hunter? I don't see an ethical hunter on his videos. I see a lot of hubris.

 

[375Fox]

I think this must be where the disconnect is among the membership here. He is well known, famous even. That tends to draw fire and yet he has not been punished by any African hunting body or court afaik. Where do you get the proof for your first sentence?

Your second sentence has been covered many times. The clients are all ok with what is happening and if the law is ok with that, then why do you care? You don't have to risk yourself in any way, but they choose to. The rest falls under this as well.

You’re basically asking me to convince you the sky is blue. If someone doesn’t want to believe it I can’t make them. An example I could tell you is one of my PHs had an issue with a high profile client trying to instigate a charge. His body guards actually became involved because this was a goal of that hunter against the direction of the PH. A charter was sent to pick him up and he was told his hunt was over. Professional companies don’t tolerate someone trying to create a dangerous situation to satisfy ego.

 

[Betterinthebush]

You’re basically asking me to convince you the sky is blue. If someone doesn’t want to believe it I can’t make them. An example I could tell you is one of my PHs had an issue with a high profile client trying to instigate a charge. His body guards actually became involved because this was a goal of that hunter against the direction of the PH. A charter was sent to pick him up and he was told his hunt was over. Professional companies don’t tolerate someone trying to create a dangerous situation to satisfy ego.

That’s insane behavior from the client.

 

[SLG]

"Proof for the first sentence? Um, his copious videos displaying judgment that would get him fired by any respectable outfitter. A picture is worth a thousand words?

Also the disconnect for me, with regards to your support of him and his methods is that first paragraph of your first post, about being an ethical hunter? I don't see an ethical hunter on his videos. I see a lot of hubris."

First of all, I'm not defending him. I'm simply reserving judgement since, as I said, none of us actually know the facts. If his behaviour would get him fired, I can't speak to that. My point was that he is a licensed PH, and the licensing body knows what he does and has no issue with it. To then assume he would be fired from somewhere else is just speculation. I'm sure plenty of other outfits would not want to hire him. He probably would not want to work for any of them either. Many self employed (I assume this is the case with him, I have no idea) people would not do well working for someone else. I'm not concerned about that at all, since those guys are not the people who decide his professional licenses and what not.

I have seen the videos, just like you. If he is allowed to do that stuff and retain his license and his clients are good with it, what is unethical about it? I have asked that before and only gotten speculation and rumor. The animals are not suffering, certainly not as much as most deer hunters in the states. Or plains game hunters in Africa.

I do see a lot of hubris, but that is not an ethical issue. I don't think I would like to hunt with him because of it, but people who actually know him say he is very different in person. May well be, IDK, and neither do you. Which is my whole point with this. You are judging based on your feelings, not on any articulable facts.

 

[SLG]

"You’re basically asking me to convince you the sky is blue. If someone doesn’t want to believe it I can’t make them. An example I could tell you is one of my PHs had an issue with a high profile client trying to instigate a charge. His body guards actually became involved because this was a goal of that hunter against the direction of the PH. A charter was sent to pick him up and he was told his hunt was over. Professional companies don’t tolerate someone trying to create a dangerous situation to satisfy ego."

I have dealt with similar things in my line of work. He should have hunted with Sullivan, lol. Obviously that behaviour is wrong, but just because the PH does not do that, does not make it unethical or wrong. Just wrong for that client to expect that PH to go along with it. You are calling it ego on Mark's part. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I don't think it is from listening to him talk. Machismo is not ego, and I think it is legit machismo. Machismo, btw, is why lots of men do manly things. Nothing wrong with that at face value.

At any rate, nuance is not a thing on the internet, and it is why I rarely engage on here. I can dislike someone or something, and still not judge it as bad or wrong. Just not my cup of tea.

 

[mark-hunter]

what is unethical about it? I have asked that before and only gotten speculation and rumor

You are now on the right place to ask.

My point was that he is a licensed PH, and the licensing body knows what he does and has no issue with it. To then assume he would be fired from somewhere else is just speculation

There was an issue with SCI, was there?

Post in thread 'Mark Sullivan kicked out of SCI'

Dec 29, 2009

The entire form can be seen at:

http://www.showsci.com/docs/ex...nd Regulations.pdf


SCI is extremely aware of media and public sensitivity regarding graphic hunting scenes. Because “graphic” is subject to personal interpretation, it is increasingly necessary for us to not only have video display standards for our Annual Hunters’ Convention, but also be ready to respond to convention attendees who find certain visual presentations objectionable. In an effort to ensure an environment that is consistent with SCI’s image and mission, the below listed criteria are defined for our...

• billrquimby

• 

VISUAL DISPLAY STANDARDS:

HUNTING ETHICS STANDARDS:
No wounded or prolonged dying animals
Show proper respect for animals
No charge killing
Demonstrate appreciation of environment
No labored breathing or kicking
No profanity or inappropriate language
No crippled chase or gut shots
Proper handling of animal after the kill
No dispatching of wounded animals
No “hero” shots (sunglasses, bare chests, etc.)
No excessive blood
Presentable image of animal and hunter
No mouth or tongue shot
No high fence/enclosure barriers displayed
No arrow left in game
alcohol in hunting scenes
No high-impact killing or repetitive kill shots
Demonstrate proper trophy care
No gutting/field preparation
No immature game
Don’t straddle the game

EDUCATION & ENTERTAINING: VISUAL PRODUCTION
Project positive hunter image
Ensure highest quality of video/DVD, etc.
Educational content must be accurate
Use appropriate music background
Provide complete instructions Use a script where possible
Demonstrate ethical hunting standards
Visual support should cover promotion
Entertainment value must be defined
Finished product should be a good value
Visual should be able to be shown to non- hunting groups, on national television, etc.
All signage and photos displayed within exhibit area must meet these same standards.

WEAPONS SAFETY: CONSERVATION & GAME LAWS :
Total gun and bow safety
Abide by rules of fair chase
Stress no shell in chamber
Compliance with license laws
Unload weapon over fence, stream, etc.
Clean up camp/pick up trash
Demonstrate tree stand safety
No shooting from boats, trucks, etc.
No long-distance or poorly advised shots
Wear hunter orange (where applicable)

AUDIO/SOUND STANDARDS:
In general, exhibitors may use sound equipment in their booths so long as the noise level does not disrupt the activities of neighboring exhibitors. External speakers and other sound devices should be positioned facing into the booth to direct the sound into the booth rather than into the aisle. Television monitors up to 25 inches with built-in internal speakers may be positioned facing into the aisle with sound adjustments set at reasonable levels. Rule of thumb: Sound and noise should not exceed 85 decibels.

 

[fourfive8]

SLG, what in the double hockey sticks are you talking about? Seems like you are jumping back and forth between moral/ethical and legal, conveniently using the two interchangeably when it suits your position. No facts about his behavior? All speculation based on second hand info? No arguable facts? Are you asking people to NOT believe their lying eyes? It’s all there as hard evidence in video form that the idiot produced himself, driven to sell a product and driven by his own ego. I choose to believe my brain, my eyes and my ears as do most. No nuance to it.

 

[Tanks]

I think he definitely retired and wish him the best.

I ran into Mark at DSC and he is still guiding in Tanzania. As a matter of fact, we discussed a buffalo and hippo hunt on dry land.

If anyone wishes to contact him, send me a DM and I'll give you his cell/WhatsApp number.

 

[SLG]

You are now on the right place to ask.


There was an issue with SCI, was there?

Post in thread 'Mark Sullivan kicked out of SCI'

Dec 29, 2009

The entire form can be seen at:

http://www.showsci.com/docs/ex...nd Regulations.pdf


SCI is extremely aware of media and public sensitivity regarding graphic hunting scenes. Because “graphic” is subject to personal interpretation, it is increasingly necessary for us to not only have video display standards for our Annual Hunters’ Convention, but also be ready to respond to convention attendees who find certain visual presentations objectionable. In an effort to ensure an environment that is consistent with SCI’s image and mission, the below listed criteria are defined for our...

• billrquimby

• 

VISUAL DISPLAY STANDARDS:

HUNTING ETHICS STANDARDS:
No wounded or prolonged dying animals
Show proper respect for animals
No charge killing
Demonstrate appreciation of environment
No labored breathing or kicking
No profanity or inappropriate language
No crippled chase or gut shots
Proper handling of animal after the kill
No dispatching of wounded animals
No “hero” shots (sunglasses, bare chests, etc.)
No excessive blood
Presentable image of animal and hunter
No mouth or tongue shot
No high fence/enclosure barriers displayed
No arrow left in game
alcohol in hunting scenes
No high-impact killing or repetitive kill shots
Demonstrate proper trophy care
No gutting/field preparation
No immature game
Don’t straddle the game

EDUCATION & ENTERTAINING: VISUAL PRODUCTION
Project positive hunter image
Ensure highest quality of video/DVD, etc.
Educational content must be accurate
Use appropriate music background
Provide complete instructions Use a script where possible
Demonstrate ethical hunting standards
Visual support should cover promotion
Entertainment value must be defined
Finished product should be a good value
Visual should be able to be shown to non- hunting groups, on national television, etc.
All signage and photos displayed within exhibit area must meet these same standards.

WEAPONS SAFETY: CONSERVATION & GAME LAWS :
Total gun and bow safety
Abide by rules of fair chase
Stress no shell in chamber
Compliance with license laws
Unload weapon over fence, stream, etc.
Clean up camp/pick up trash
Demonstrate tree stand safety
No shooting from boats, trucks, etc.
No long-distance or poorly advised shots
Wear hunter orange (where applicable)

AUDIO/SOUND STANDARDS:
In general, exhibitors may use sound equipment in their booths so long as the noise level does not disrupt the activities of neighboring exhibitors. External speakers and other sound devices should be positioned facing into the booth to direct the sound into the booth rather than into the aisle. Television monitors up to 25 inches with built-in internal speakers may be positioned facing into the aisle with sound adjustments set at reasonable levels. Rule of thumb: Sound and noise should not exceed 85 decibels.

Those are SCI rules right? Certainly nothing to do with his licensing or anything else meaningful.

 

[mark-hunter]

Those are SCI rules right? Certainly nothing to do with his licensing or anything else meaningful.

It depends on your definition of "meaningful". Feel free to share.

 

[SLG]

SLG, what in the double hockey sticks are you talking about? Seems like you are jumping back and forth between moral/ethical and legal, conveniently using the two interchangeably when it suits your position. No facts about his behavior? All speculation based on second hand info? No arguable facts? Are you asking people to NOT believe their lying eyes? It’s all there as hard evidence in video form that the idiot produced himself, driven to sell a product and driven by his own ego. I choose to believe my brain, my eyes and my ears as do most. No nuance to it.

Please, educate me. How am I jumping around to suit my position?

The difference here is that I understand that a video is not absolute, unassailable proof. It is a part of an investigation, not the whole thing. Which was my whole point to begin with. Many people seem to be content to make judgements about things they actually know very little about. I know I know very little about it, so I reserve judgement. The U.S. wouldn't have half the issues it has right now, if more people were capable of a little detached reflection. Unfortunately, that is not the case for most people. Lots of opinions, few facts.

 

[SLG]

It depends on your definition of "meaningful". Feel free to share.

SCI is a money making organization, not a governing body for PH's. They don't get to decide if his behaviour is good or bad, except at their show.

 

[mark-hunter]

SCI is a money making organization, not a governing body for PH's. They don't get to decide if his behaviour is good or bad, except at their show.

We are yet to find a national hunting organization of a state, that kicked out their Ph for unethical behavior. Some examples would be welcome. Feel free to share.

You are new on te forum and I am here for some years. There have been here and there occasional negative hunt report from time to time by some of the forum members.

In there they claimed, their case has been reported to national hunting organization of their PH.
And I have never seen follow up reports having PH kicked out.
If it happens it is very rare.

 

[farmer_john]

…
Is Mark a confident or even a cocky personality? Yes, but aren’t most of us that engage this dangerous pursuit?

Not trying to steal anyones thunder but no
Hunting the big 5 is not really that dangerous.
Of all the folks hunting every year how many die. Does it have a level of risk. Yes it does but theres alot of risk mitigation and backup shooters to minimize that risk.

Im pretty confident my commute to work has higher odds of death or crippling injury

 

[Scott CWO]

Please, educate me. How am I jumping around to suit my position?

The difference here is that I understand that a video is not absolute, unassailable proof. It is a part of an investigation, not the whole thing. Which was my whole point to begin with. Many people seem to be content to make judgements about things they actually know very little about. I know I know very little about it, so I reserve judgement. The U.S. wouldn't have half the issues it has right now, if more people were capable of a little detached reflection. Unfortunately, that is not the case for most people. Lots of opinions, few facts.

There is video of him not immediately dispatching a wounded buffalo when he had plenty of opportunity to kill it. Instead, he waits for a charge. This prolonged the suffering.

In another video, he positions himself, instead of the hunter, in the best position to shoot a hippo on land. The hippo later charges while the hunter is off to the side with a bad angle and obstructions in the way. Mark shoots the hippo and then the hunter shoots later. I don’t know about you but I’m not paying thousands of dollars to have my PH become the hunter.

I’m all for a PH or guide helping dispatch wounded game. I’ve had to help put brown bears down in Alaska a few times when guiding but I always set the hunter up in the best spot. As a hunter, I don’t want a guide shooting my animals and putting himself in the best position when there is time to get setup properly for the hunter to be in the primary position. Therefore, I would never set myself up in the primary position when guiding.

We also keep shooting a bear until it stops moving. We don’t wait for a wounded bear to charge and then shoot.