Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 9,3x64

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by HWL, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

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    No problem, a forum lives from the experiences of its members and from the discussion about this.

    Your little collection is the classic pre war african combination - pictures would be great!

    (y)

    HWL
     
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  2. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    HWL...some pics of my 6,5x54MS in my media section..
     

  3. ZG47

    ZG47 AH Enthusiast

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    Gert
    The rifling dimensions were changed in July 1896, by increasing the groove depth, 1888 rifles with those deeper grooves having a large Z marked on the receiver. A new bullet, with doubled jacket thickness was designed to suit the Z rifling. When the new ammunition was introduced, teams of armourers were sent around Prussia, Bavaria, etc to modify the chambers (neck, throat and leade) of rifles whose barrels had been originally rifled to Z dimensions, to accept the new ammunition.
    Confusion mainly seems to have come from lazy gun writers who do not carry out genuine research and/or cannot think logically AND comparison of cheaper 1920s export sporting Mausers with service rifles.
     
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  4. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    ZG47, thank you very much this info is much appreciated. Will it be possible to forward me the source in regards to these changes made to the 8mm Mauser barrels ..as well as how the gunsmiths done this deepening of the grooves? Please explain the measurements of the Z- dimensions???? Here in South Africa few people really know what happened /how it happens ....
    I would appreciate knowing more in this regards since I really like the Mauser history...I was lucky enough to get hold of a 11mm Mauser....(y)
     

  5. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    He, he, he :LOL::LOL::LOL: I have the same problem Pondoro, usually I do not derail a thread a bit..but with some huge strides..go big or go home...:ROFLMAO::LOL::LOL::LOL:
     

  6. ZG47

    ZG47 AH Enthusiast

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    No problem. Will send you an email later, as to how I located the truth of the matter, my understanding of the story and list of references.
     
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  7. geoff rath

    geoff rath AH Enthusiast

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    It seems we have the basis for a 9.3X64 enthusiasts group here.....I just wish Hornady or someone would make some good brass for it, quality factor rifle will follow. Luckily, here in Australia, we have Bertram for brass, and Woodleigh for bullets. May be a bit pricey and hard-to-get in the US....
     

  8. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

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    Hi geoff...

    May be the "Mannlicher-Schoenauer" is a bit irritating for the friends of the 9,3x64.

    But to found a "9,3x64 Brenneke enthusiast group" would be a good idea.

    Or "9,3x64 goes Africa"....will fit perfect to this forum.

    Just do it.... you will have a lot of followers.


    HWL
     
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  9. geoff rath

    geoff rath AH Enthusiast

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    Mannlicher Schoenauer just gets me nostalgic; aesthetic, elegant rifles (except for the garish white line spacer thing) that are beyond my "pay scale". An ideal African hunt would involve an extended trip, with MS (or Mauser) rifles, in good European calibers; 6.5 of some sort, maybe a 7X57 or a 7X64. Step up to 9.3X64 (preferably), then 12.7X70/500 Jeffery. A nice 12 or 20 gauge to finish.
    Can you imagine such a Safari??? Take it over several weeks ....
     
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  10. ZG47

    ZG47 AH Enthusiast

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    @Gert Odendaal Email sent. Now you have the chance to be the most boring man in town or at least your gunsmith friend’s workshop, for the next few days! :D Also, don’t be too surprised if your friend already knew the engineering details but keeps silent because he has better things to do, like earning money, than pointing out the bleeding obvious!
     

  11. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

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    I collect Mannlicher-Schoenauers since years, and I am completely with you in this matter.

    I was hunting in Africa, once I spent 3 month down there.

    But never ever with a Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

    My last tip was with a M98 in .404, a M98 in .300 Win-Mag and a Drilling in .222 Rem and 20/70,20/70 for all the small stuff.

    But now I am seriously thinking about a "Mannlicher-Schoenauer only" trip.

    5,6x57, 7x57 and 9,3x64 or someting like this would be a happy combination.


    HWL
     
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  12. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

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    ....you will have more opportunitys with Mauser M98, because they come in every caliber you can imagine.

    Mannlicher-Schoenauer in classic african calibers ar quite rare...

    Sometimes a 9,3x62 comes around, but every thing bigger is unusual and expensive...


    HWL
     
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  13. geoff rath

    geoff rath AH Enthusiast

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    Near perfect. Enjoy yourself ....
     

  14. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    ZG47, thank you very much..you will be surprise of how many people /gun nuts/hunters do not know about the difference in the 8x57 caliber or its history..:LOL::LOL::LOL:
     

  15. geoff rath

    geoff rath AH Enthusiast

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    I've heard it expressed as 7.9X57, which "morphed" into the 8X57 ....
     

  16. ZG47

    ZG47 AH Enthusiast

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    The 7.92x57 I (I for Infanterie) which was used in the original barrels and the Z barrels, made from late July 1896 onwards, is also known as the 8x57 I and sometimes marked on sported barrels as 8x57. The 7.92x57 IS, introduced after 1900, carries the civilian designation 8.2x57 IS (sometimes 8.2x57 JS when packaged in Germany).
    Hornady only use the 8.2x57 reference for their ammo, partly to allow full ballistics and partly, I would imagine, because SAAMI dimensions for the case length are a tad short.
    You learn, in the army, to use exact names and definitions for munitions and explosives. Civilian gun writers tend to be irresponsible in such matters.
     
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  17. geoff rath

    geoff rath AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks, ZG47, I had forgotten the "I", "J' and "S" suffixes those precise Germanic folk applied . Appreciate the reminder.....
     

  18. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

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    This is how 9,3x64 cases look like!!!

    DSC02018.JPG

    62 from my friends who checked there case piles and 11 from my own reserve...

    Now reloading gets serious...:A Yell:

    For a iron sights DG rifle, a heavy bullet.... 300 or 320 grain?

    Is it a DG rifle?


    HWL
     
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  19. geoff rath

    geoff rath AH Enthusiast

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    9.3X64 for D/G? It would depend on what my PH/Outfitter agreed to.... As for heavies (here I go again!) Woodleigh run 320 Powerpoints, Roundnose, and 286 Hydro..... Load to their recommended IMPACT velocities an all should be well. A few Z A blokes I have spoken to say it would be acceptable on M'bogo.... Rhino, and the new Hornady solids should be O K. They tell me:: Use the best bullet you can get, an put them in the right place....
     

  20. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    300 gn swift aframes will minimize the need for solids.
    they would be a much better bullet than the heavy woodleigh, and shoot flatter as well.
    drive them hard.
    bruce.
     
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