Light for caliber Projectiles

Alexandro Faria

AH enthusiast
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
323
Reaction score
319
Location
Pretoria
Media
20
Articles
8
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SA wingshooters, GOSA,
Hunted
RSA, Namibia, Botswana
I was going through my list of local projectile manufacturers and I noticed some quite 'reasonable' weights in the big bore category. Specifically, I see Impala make a 240gr .416 and a 270gr .458 projectile. I'm aware that barnes make some pretty good 300gr .458 projectiles too.

With projectiles like this in mind (up to 300gr) do you guys feel that these realistically increase the usability of the big bores? I mean, a 240gr solid out of a 416 rigby at around 2800ft/s really shouldn't be too much worse than a stout 300 win mag load, should it?

Keen to hear your thoughts, cheers.
 

Forrest Halley

AH fanatic
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
877
Reaction score
1,241
Location
VA, USA
Media
25
Stability and bearing surface is what I think about when I hear light for caliber. Once upon a time in The West I was playing with .45LC at 200 yards. 160 grain bullets were all over the place, but 200 grain bullets loaded hot were just the ticket. There was little difference in the nose profile, but the driving bands were longer on the 200's. Also consider twist rate and velocity. You'd have to play with it, but if you keep the ranges short, it should be okay.
 

Tanks

AH elite
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
1,554
Reaction score
2,678
Media
48
...

With projectiles like this in mind (up to 300gr) do you guys feel that these realistically increase the usability of the big bores? I mean, a 240gr solid out of a 416 rigby at around 2800ft/s really shouldn't be too much worse than a stout 300 win mag load, should it?

Keen to hear your thoughts, cheers.

I use a 225 grain tipped CEB raptor @ 2,950 with my .416 B&M and have taken game over 300 yards with it.

A 258 grain tipped CEB raptor @ 2,950 fps with my .458 B&M is what I will most likely use for plains game and a leopard on my upcoming hunt in August (if it happens).

The most important thing though is to develop a dope card as due to low BC after a certain point the drop is quick.

Here is the one for my Leica scope with dots and dashes, sighted in at 205 yards.

kzI2ZH8l.jpg
 

Attachments

  • kzI2ZH8l.jpg
    kzI2ZH8l.jpg
    27.7 KB · Views: 21

matt85

AH legend
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
2,667
Reaction score
2,011
Location
WA, USA
Media
28
Hunted
USA, South Africa, and Namibia
I have used the Barnes 300gr TSX in my 416 RM Winchester M70 for years. Velocity is around 2700 fps using 81.5gr of H4895 and accuracy is 1 MOA. The recoil feels a little lighter then standard 400gr loads but i've had others say it still pretty sharp. This load has been used on game ranging from pigs up to Wildebeest and in my opinion would be fine for animals up Buffalo sized.

-matt
 

Alexandro Faria

AH enthusiast
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
323
Reaction score
319
Location
Pretoria
Media
20
Articles
8
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SA wingshooters, GOSA,
Hunted
RSA, Namibia, Botswana
Stability and bearing surface is what I think about when I hear light for caliber. Once upon a time in The West I was playing with .45LC at 200 yards. 160 grain bullets were all over the place, but 200 grain bullets loaded hot were just the ticket. There was little difference in the nose profile, but the driving bands were longer on the 200's. Also consider twist rate and velocity. You'd have to play with it, but if you keep the ranges short, it should be okay.

Definitely things to consider. You'll have more experience in these things than I do, no debate.

A lot of guys here rate the impalas highly for accuracy and such, should make things interesting.
 

Tanks

AH elite
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
1,554
Reaction score
2,678
Media
48
Stability and bearing surface is what I think about when I hear light for caliber...

One thing to consider is today's copper or brass bullets are longer than equivalent weight lead bullets not being as dense as lead. So, the twist being too fast does not come into play for light for caliber bullets. As a matter of fact the opposite is happening, the twist being too slow for heavier bullets in copper or brass in some rifles due to increased length.
 

Forrest Halley

AH fanatic
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
877
Reaction score
1,241
Location
VA, USA
Media
25
One thing to consider is today's copper or brass bullets are longer than equivalent weight lead bullets not being as dense as lead. So, the twist being too fast does not come into play for light for caliber bullets. As a matter of fact the opposite is happening, the twist being too slow for heavier bullets in copper or brass in some rifles due to increased length.
I saw you had posted that in another thread. I had forgotten about the mono bullets. I don't use them much. I have some solids for my .458 Lott, but had forgotten about the ttsx in my .300 WM. Very valid point with the sustained bearing surface of monos. Glad to hear that. It puts my mind at ease with some of my rifles.
 

michael458

AH veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
143
Reaction score
310
Location
South Carolina
Media
109
In 2013 I hunted with one of my 18 inch 458 B&Ms in Zimbabwe. I had 3 bullets shooting to the same or very close to same POI at 50 yards. One of those bullets was at the time the new 250 Socom from Cutting Edge. In the 458 B&M it was running at or around 2950 fps. It was a hammer on Zebra, wildebeest, oryx, hartebeest, of which I shot several of these size animals, and every single one was bang/flop DRT. Also, no bullets recovered, all exits.

We had spent a week in South Africa on the plains game, and then moved on to Zimbabwe for a couple more weeks. I ended up using the 250 Socom on a good size croc, neck shot, DRT. I tried it on a cow buffalo, behind the shoulder shot, recovered the base on the far side under the hide. One day we are walking along Lake Kariba about 30 yards off the shore line, looking for any croc's that might be laying about. The 458 was loaded with the 250 Socom for this mission, backed by 450 gr CEB Solids. As we are moving slowly along, there was a big sleeping bull hippo to our right at 15 yards! We ended up in between him and the water, never a really good spot to be in. He sensed something, but did not see or smell us, but none the less stood up to have a look. He was a huge bull, I moved very slowly around a bush to get a better view. There was no chance of changing ammo, we were just way too close and he was already on alert. I had a good shot right between the eyes and took it with the 250 Socom at 2950 fps! It was bang and flop and end of story. However I paid the insurance with one of the solids through the shoulder regardless. It was totally devastating, brain matter had squirted out both ear holes for over 6 feet on both sides. Skull was cracked, and in the end we found the base of the bullet about 8 inches behind the skull. It was wicked.

If you are looking for something that will absolutely be a hammer in your 458s for anything short of buffalo and of course the heavies, hippo and elephant, this 250 Socom is the ticket. I had a good friend use his 458 B&M with the 250 Socom on a very large bull moose a few years ago at over 200 yards. The moose dropped in his tracks on the spot. No bullet recovered. This is not your typical light weight deer bullet, it can handle way more than that with ease.............

I was also very lucky in this rifle, the 250 Socom at 2950 fps matched well with the 450 Solids at 2200 fps and the 420 Raptors at 2300 fps. Making this 458 extremely versatile.............
 

Tanks

AH elite
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
1,554
Reaction score
2,678
Media
48
...

I was also very lucky in this rifle, the 250 Socom at 2950 fps matched well with the 450 Solids at 2200 fps and the 420 Raptors at 2300 fps. Making this 458 extremely versatile.............

That is why I went with an 18" barrel in my .458 B&M, hoping to be just as lucky ;)
 

michael458

AH veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
143
Reaction score
310
Location
South Carolina
Media
109
That is why I went with an 18" barrel in my .458 B&M, hoping to be just as lucky ;)

Mine is a dream to hunt with, and without doubt is one of the finest little rifles I have ever gone to the field with. It came in extremely light for wood stocked gun at 7.5 lbs no scope. It handles incredibly well. Overall length 38 inches. Running the 450 CEB Solids, 420 Raptors, and the 250 Socom you can rule the hunting fields of the world, regardless of species.......
 

bruce moulds

AH legend
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,787
Reaction score
3,949
stability will be no problem with any lightweight bullet available in any calibre.
an example is that 50 gn bullets shoot extremely accurately in 1:8 twist 224 cal.
the bullets will be extremely stable, and just travel a little more nose high than a longer stable bullet.
cup and core might be far more likely to overexpand when spun faster.
going back to the 224 above, 50 some 50 gn bullets will explode in the air, so you have to be selective if you want to reach the target.
here is another argument for mono bullets.
there is a bigger worry with over heavy bullets for calibre having less stability due to extra length.
375 twists evolved for 300 gn bullets, and 416 for 400/410 gn..
going to 350 anf 450 gn bullets in these calibres compromises stability far more than lighter bullets do, and this includes during penetration.
bruce.
 

Ray B

AH legend
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
2,817
Reaction score
3,465
Location
WA St, USA
Media
77
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
1
For thin skinned and non-dangerous game I prefer the light for caliber bullets in any cartridge larger than .30. This means: 215 gr .338s, 250 gr 375, 350 gr 404s & 458s. The variable to watch with any is to make sure the bullet construction is up to the tack and velocity in mind.
 

RayAtkinson

AH fanatic
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
672
Reaction score
574
Location
Filer,
Media
25
Articles
1
Member of
SCI Dallas
Hunted
RSA, Botswana, CAR, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, Kenya way back when, and a few others that I can't remember.
I field tested the 350 gr 375s and the 450 gr. PPs in the 416 and 404 on buffalo for Geoff at Woodleighs, they passed in flying colors and became my favorite African bullet in those calibers..I have no use for light for caliber bullets on DG, labial to getcha et..
 

Forum statistics

Threads
37,389
Messages
713,338
Members
66,703
Latest member
AustinBart
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

degoins wrote on Treemantwo's profile.
I have a like new VC .450 I might part with. I had it built in 2013 and it has served me well. Also have a VC fitted leather trunk case for it along with the plastic case it came with. I'll take 14000 for all of it.
Matt W wrote on Jody's profile.
Hi Jody,
I have been looking for ideas on the best way to display my European mounts from Africa. I came across some of your shield work and was wondering if you would be willing to make one for me? If so, please let me know the cost. I like the shield with the two spears that you built for a member years ago. Thanks.
cal pappas wrote on Mnelson2's profile.
Nelson. Is this message a PM format. I want to send you my email, but don't know if this is the cirrect way to do it. I'm at <pappas@mtaonline.net> Send me an email with your phone and I will call you about a skull I have. I went to school in Boston and am from Bernardston in the west part of the state. Moved to Alaska in 1984 adn never looked back.
BeeMaa wrote on Justbryan's profile.
Sold a Blaser scope mount to him. He was a pleasure to do business with.
BeeMaa wrote on 375Fox's profile.
Sold a Blaser scope mount to him. Was a pleasure to do business with.
 
Top