Discussion in 'Hunting Videos' started by oneshotlu, Jan 31, 2011.
Good advice Diamondhitch.
It's the same in Sweden. Every male of above the age of 19 years must do National Service for 3 years. He is then discharged but is still active in an emergency call up. They retain all their gear including their service rifle. Crime rate is very low.
You might have a point. Not sure what caliber this guy had. And perhaps it was Zimbabwe. He was going to southern Africa, but which country I don't recall. Didn't realize the UK embargos that country.
And as for it being the pistol team, yes, I should have specified. Their pistol team has to leave the country. Pretty ridiculas, but that's the UK for you. I was there in 1999 working on an archeological diving expedition. Took part in a six diver team from my volunteer organization here with the UK groups, which included the government's archeological diving unit. The Brit volunteer who was leading the expedition "Operation Man-O-War" was a rather wealth leadeing citizen in the community of Ramsgate. I was at his quite lovely mansion, which he had turned into a high-end nursing home (for wealthy families apparently) and in his office I saw several machine pistols on the wall. They were all obviously non-functional with the huge gaping elongated holes through the barrel and receiver made by a torch. I said something like "Nice machineguns." I then said I had heard about their handgun ban a couple years earlier and asked if it effected him. His response was immediate and he was pissed.
"Don't EVEN get me started on that!" He then later told me he'd received, like everyone else, a letter from the government, listing his six collector piece handguns, worth a total of 6,000 pounds sterling (about $10,000 at that time), by description and serial number. It then informed him he had "X" number of weeks (I think it was three), to turn them in to his local Constable's station for destruction or he would be "arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law." Two short paragraphs, very abrupt, very curt, and threatening him with arrest if he failed to comply.
This is a man who was no criminal, and in fact was a well-known leader of the community and whose background was completely checked because he was receiving government payments for operating his nursing home.
They took his guns claiming he would be "fairly compensated." He said he received 1,800 pounds, or 30% of the actual value of the firearms. That's $3,000 for $10,000 worth of guns. He took a 70% loss. And he said he was lucky because most of the people he knew who also lost their guns got zilch... NADA... for their guns. There was a huge complaint and law suit over it going on at the time, but he didn't expect it to result in anything. It seems I recall in the news later the courts judged against the guns owners saying the nation was in debt and they weren't guaranteed anything, so too bad. I can't swear to that being it's been quite a while now, but I do recall the finding did NOT make my colleagues in the UK happy at all.
if a country is on the arms embargo list of the uk govnt such as zimbabwe then no they dont let you take your guns there. i think it is only the pistol team that cant practice in the uk, but shotgun, rimfire rifle and fullbore rifle shooting are enjoyed by many people.
il capo a friend of mine who lives in london waited till the last day to take his handguns to his local police station, and said, to make me feel a bit better tell me this will make a difference. the policemans answer was no it wont make the slightest difference at all. you think your friend was pissed!! we are still allowed handguns and military semi-autos here (hopefully for a longtime.....), but the local newspaper has a shit stir every so often. maybe google www.jerseyeveningpost.com, and then put in the search box ,guns in jersey, then scroll down the page approx 3/4 , there are a couple of inaccurate bits of stuff . the police actually contacted the various gun clubs and apologized for what the paper had written, as in the total was for anything you needed a license for even humane killers for vets. we have a club from the uk that comes over a couple of times a year just to shoot all the military stuff they cant have anymore. you lot over in the usa need to make sure you dont get more and more legislation, as it must be great to be able to go and buy what you want when you want. :daydreaming:
I'm glad our long gun registry is gone, this is exactly where it could have led.
Similar to the UK Pistol team we (Canada) suffered our own humiliation when the registry first came into play and our military did not get its paperwork in in time so our peace keeping troups were sent without guns and for a month or so had to be escorted (protected) by French troops. What a joke, Im glad the Liberals have crashed and burnt, for the time being they can cause no more harm or embarrasment.
your military couldnt take their guns? :loopy: i dont think even the uk govnt would be that stupid, mind you........
I'm proud of the Canadian public for dumping their socialists and going with a more conservative government. For years now I've been watching as traditionally liberal countries have been 'getting their act together' while mine is going in exactly the wrong direction. This is the problem when the public is so easily led around by the nose by a mainstream media which is nothing more than a lap dog for the Democrat Party.
I was the only American member of the pistol club in downtown Naples, Italy while stationed there from 1990 to 1992. I made an effort to go through all the paperwork to buy a Beretta 92F while there, and believe me, it's a load of papers, fees and a lot of waiting. I got my gun in about six or seven months. I informed my landlord, who asked I not tell his wife or kids, but he was excited and asked to see the pistol, which I showed him. He was amazed I got it so "quickly," because he said it typically took an Italian -- one without political pull -- up to two years to get a permit. I guess due to my military status and all they expedited it.
Anyway, it was absurd because all of the hoops I had to jump through. First, I had to go to the Provost Marshall's office to speak to the Caribinieri (national military police). I actually showed them a picture in a catalog of the very gun I wanted. They gave me forms to fill out, which I did. I also got a copy of the U.S. Navy's instruction, which the legal office had issued, on how to go about buying a gun in Italy. (We couldn't bring any of our own guns from the U.S. So I bought one there to bring home later and kept up my practice at the civilian range.)
I followed both sets of regulations -- the U.S. Military and the Italian one -- to the letter. I ordered the gun, which took several months to arrive. Once it did, I had to go to the store and get the serial number off it, which I did. This went on my application, I paid for "stamps," which is a fee/tax for processing the paperwork. Then it was all sent in to wherever it goes. I also had to list the ammunition I wanted to buy. (Not sure about it now, but at that time there was a 200 round limit per caliber, and a three gun limit on all owners.)
When they got the paperwork back I was called into the office and presented with my "porta di armi" (arms carry permit). It's actually a misnomer, because you're not able to "carry" your gun on you. It's simply a document allowing you to "own" one. I was then told I had to take this document to the pistol club and have the management there sign the document. And oh, by the way, my ammunition allotment had been arbitrarily reduced to one box (50 rounds). I asked why and the officer simply said he didn't know, but it was up to the individual official approving the document to make a judgement and for whatever reason he reduced it to 50 rounds.
Now, while I'm relating this story, there's the catch... You must be a member of a pistol club in good standing for at least six months before the government will allow you to apply for a porta di armi, and the club must sign off on this. The catch is, how do you practice if you don't have a gun? Not all clubs had guns for rent. So, it's a real catch 22.
The president had signed my initial application, as was required, saying I had been a member of the club for six months. I hadn't been actually, but being a navy officer he had no problem fudging the document. But when I went down a second time to have him sign the actual porta di armi he looked at the description of the gun I was buying and said, "Signore, you cannot bring that gun here." I said "huh? Why not?" His response was, "I don't have a problem with this, but the police will not allow you to transport that gun from your house!" He then went on to explain why. He pulled out a three-ring binder in which he had guns listed, organized alphabetically by the respective gun manufacturer, and listing all the guns each maker made. He went to the Beretta page and there were probably two dozen guns listed. But he then pointed to those with an asterisk after them, of which there were only three, and noted, "Signore, only one of these three pistols is authorized for transport." I was dumbfounded and asked why. He said, the gun I was buying, like most on the list, was considered a "combat pistol," and gun owners are not allowed to carry those out of their home. Once they get them in their house it must stay there. They will not give you permission to take it to the gun range and back. He said only "target" models were authorized for carry to and from a range for practice. I asked how the hell people were supposed to be able to practice if they couldn't get the gun to the range. And that's when he said that this was the whole point. The anti-gunners there didn't WANT people owning guns, so they passed laws making it so onerous that there was no point in owning one. You could buy one for protection, but you could never practice with it. The catch 22!
He then said, "Signore, now you understand why my staff and I are all members of your National Rifle Association. You Americans have no idea how lucky you are to have such an organization fighting on your behalf. Without it, you would be having the same thing happening there as we have here. Every year there are new laws passed making more and more difficult to own a gun and to practice. Pretty soon we won't have anything left!"
I informed him we're battling antigun zealots every day and sometimes we loose. We have states like Illinois, New York, Massachussets, etc., which want exactly the same thing for here as they have in his country. He told me we need to fight it all we can.
Anyway, I was livid because I had just spent a considerable amount of time and money just getting to this point and here the police didn't say anything about this restriction. He said he would go ahead and sign my porta di armi, but that I should be prepared to be given a one-way ticket to get my gun home, but without permission to bring it to the range as was the point.
I went back to the Provost Marshall and angrily presented the officer there with this screw up. I figured instead of remaining quiet and seeing what happened, I'd face off with them right up front. I noted how I had come to them with a picture of the gun as well as a description, and how all through this process no one had said anything about the prohibition to transporting such a gun out of one's home to the range. He just shrugged his shoulders and said he didn't know what to say, but they'd send it to the Police Department in downtown Naples for processing and see what they said. And while I was at it, I once again asked they up my ammo allotment to the allowed 200 rounds, because I could easily shoot that up in a single session.
I don't recall the time I waited, but I finally got a phone call to come pick up my porta di armi, which had been approved. They then told me it was approved to transport my gun to and from the range. I asked how. They just shrugged and said they didn't know. But now I had to take it to my local police department. I went to my local police department to inform them and have THEM sign off on the document. Fortunately, I took some night courses in learning the Italian language, otherwise I would have been up a creek trying to communicate with the police officer. He was rather surprised, and came across as being mildly "upset" that I was requesting the right to have a gun in my house. He wanted to know why. I didn't even want to get into discussions of how Saddam Hussein had been threatening to launch terrorist attacks all over Europe and elsewhere where we had military bases if DESERT STORM was launched. (He was threatening attacks on military housing and being I lived out in the open with no security, I just wanted to be sure I had a means of dealing with an attempted attack or kidnapping or something.) I just said I wanted to maintain my proficiency in pistol marksmanship while there in Italy and I was not allowed to bring any of my own weapons from the USA. I noted I was a former cop myself, from Chicago, and this seemed to settle him a little.
Anyway, he approved it, but warned me that I was ONLY authorized to go directly from my home to the range and then back. I could not deviate from a direct path between the two locations, or even stop at a store. I asked what if I needed gas. He told me to make sure I was gassed up BEFORE I went because I was not allowed to stop anywhere. He said if I were to get stopped by police and found to have this weapon in the car and was NOT on a direct route from home to the range or vice versa, I would be subject to arrest, seizure of my gun, and would be prosecuted.
THAT, my friends, was Italy in 1990. And that is precisely what all our anti-gun opponents want to institute in all our countries, assuming they can't get a complete out and out ban passed.
Again, the president of the club told me his entire staff were members of the NRA and got the magazines, etc., and only wished they had our freedoms, while admonishing us to cherish and protect them so we didn't wind up with the idiot laws they have.
Oh, and in the end, I got my 200 rounds too.
Now, and you're going to love this one.... I went to the range one day and practiced. When I was done, a young Italian guy walked up to me and started a conservation. When he saw the gun I was using and how I had boxed it up to carry out, he asked me how that was possible. He noted it was a combat pistol and combat pistols were not authorized out of the building. I told him what happened and how the police eventually okayed it. I thought one of two things happened 1) they didn't notice it was a combat pistol or 2) perhaps they were so embarrassed about not knowing their own laws they just figured what the heck, it's clear I'm not a threat to anyone and okayed it.
He then told me how LUCKY I was because even he, as a police officer, was not authorized to bring his own pistol to the range. I then found he was the Italian equivalent to a national park ranger here in the USA, and that their laws are so stupid even a law enforcement officer like himself, who is authorized to carry a gun, could not bring their person arms out of their homes. He said he could practice with his government issued gun, but not his own person arm.
So, how's THAT for a wacky story?
Come to think of it, perhaps that's why the local officer was upset. Could it have been because I was being given a permit to transport a gun usually not authorized for transport? Naaaah! Probably not. I'm sure that he, like the other officers, didn't even know his country's own laws because processing a permit was such an "unusual" request.
And now China just made the comment in the U.N., as they try passing this small arms control treaty, that the United States is violating human rights because we allow mere citizens to be armed. They said criminals use guns to violate people's rights, and therefore WE, as a society, are guilty of human rights abuses because we allow citizens to be armed.
This from one of the most repressive dictatorships on the planet!
I don't know how anyone can call a guy lucky that just got picked out of a group of several people and get mauled by a wounded leopard. Pound for Pound Leopard seem to be the badest of the bad. An animal that weighs not much more than a man that can carry a kill up into a tree. Amazingly strong, aggressive, beautiful and extraordinarily dangerous.
Great hunting adventure with happy ending.
This adventure is remembered for a lifetime.
I've had stoppages / jams in two separate leopard incidents with semi auto's ( both Remingtons ) one old Sportmaster and the other a newer model. Both jammed after the first shot , one with buckshot / LG the other with Remington 2 3/4" slug. Was not a good experience either time. The buckshot incident my backup departed but left behind a mini Ruger 223 in the dust which I grabbed and managed to finish the job with. The other with the slug my backup stood firm and saved the day with a well placed 7.62 round from an FN SLR. I have no good reports from my own experience on the use of buckshot for leopard - and I have had plenty opportunity to witness it first hand. Totally unreliable performance. If you want to use a shotgun because of fast quick handling go the slug route and go S/S or O/U as the chances of getting off more than two meaningful shots on a charge by a leopard are very unlikely. Don't shoot when they are to far out , let him come to the barrel !
Personally a good fast handling rifle you can shoot well with a good soft point bullet is my choice. My favourite is my 375 H&H 20 " barrel with a hot load for the 250 grain SGK.
Sorry I didn't notice the age of this thread
Here in Alaska it is common to use 00 buck and slugs alternating for bear defense, slugs are certainly more deadly but I have never heard of poor penetration by buckshot. Usually it is quoted as overpenetrating for home defense use however when used against a bear the goal is massive damage and not the instant stop needed on a crazed kitty.
For a quality semi auto try Beretta 390 series guns, I have purposely shot over 3000 rounds without cleaning one of mine without any malfunction, during a busy sporting clays week. Also only use 2 3/4 slugs to hold more rounds in magazine, first shot can be a magnum, buckshot using 3" gets you 3 more .30 pellets per shot so magnum rounds are good.
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