Kreighoff Classic Big Five

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by TOBY458, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    I fully agree to what you say about the 500/416...it is not a real stopper and recoil is as a .470 (with similar stock and weight..)

    I hunt with a S x S shotgun and also own an old british double in .475NE.. When you mount the Krieghoff .470 you flick the cocker/de-cocker as the safety of the two aforementioned guns...perhaps you use half-a-second more on the latter...a small price to pay to get that important safety improvement ..

    I am a conservative SOB and love my old English guns/rifles... but we cant deny that the germans have done something very clever here..
     
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  2. Opposite Pole

    Opposite Pole AH Fanatic

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    Here is mine in 470NE (and a second set of barrels in 9.3x74R).

    The finish on the metal is Nitride finish. I was advised against nickel plating by Krieghoff due to the fact that plating would cover details in engraving. my_K_gun.png
     
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  3. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    Thanks for the spelling lesson.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
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  4. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    Not really looking at any rifle in particular. Just looking.
     

  5. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    What is all this fear of doubling?
    I have shot Parker double guns since 15 years of age (several decades) and now old German Simson and Italian Beretta double rifles for nearly 10 years and nary a "double" .
    Naturally my old Model 70 has never fired without my pulling the trigger.
    I have never heard of a "GOOD" English (or American, French, German, Italian, etc) double gun that doubled.

    So why would anyone own a gun that doubled? Why would anyone buy a brand of gun that is reputed to double?
    It seems to me that such a reputation would keep shooters from buying from such a company?
    NOT Doubling should be one of the minimum design aspects of a double gun or rifle.
    If such a gun is old and worn, it should be repaired or just hung on the wall.

    Color me Confused.
     
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  6. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    I completely agree! I think most guns that double are made to do so by user error. The front trigger is pulled and then while the rifle is recoiling, the trigger finger hits the back trigger by mistake. But, I suppose if the triggers are set too light, the recoil of some of the heavier calibers could cause a double if there was nothing mechanical to stop it from happening.
     
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  7. One Day...

    One Day... GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Maybe not what is doubling, but who is doubling...

    I agree with TOBY458. Based on my own very limited personal experience with doubles doubling: 1 shooter and 2 rifles, I am willing to freely speculate that a lot of doubling incidents are owed to people doubling, NOT rifles doubling. What with this pesky second trigger and this jarring recoil... My own experience was with one specific person whose double (can't remember the make) was supposedly doubling almost every time he was shooting it. Hmmm... I tried it, first with a live round in the right barrel and a snap cap in the left barrel, then with two live rounds. It did not double... Just out of curiosity he shot my own double. In those 1980's days it was my pre-WWII Jules Bury .450 #2. That rifle NEVER doubled on me, neither before nor after this little story. When this person shot it, you guessed it, my rifle, oooops, correction, this shooter doubled... Actually it was more a very quick double tap (bam, bam) than a true doubling (one big BAM). Somehow, as he was griping the stock under recoil, he managed to hit the second trigger... I could, of course, never convince him that he was the problem, not the two rifles...

    In a totally different but similar way, I also had a friend who somehow managed to get my S&W .44 mag to skip a chamber or two out of a full cylinder when shooting. He would actually shoot 4 or 5 rounds out of the six, but the cylinder would complete a full rotation back to the first fired shell, and 1 or 2 live rounds would be left in the cylinder. Needless to say the revolver never, ever did that with me. The only explanation I could make of this was that he somehow started to squeeze the trigger again under recoil, which started the cylinder rotation, but he released the trigger before that cylinder rotation was complete coming down from recoil. Then, when he cocked for the next shot, the cylinder was rotating to the next chamber, skipping one chamber. I saw it happen to him time and again. He too was convinced that the gun was the issue, not him...

    But it is documented in the literature...

    This being said, some doubles have been known to double. It is documented in the literature, including in Robert Ruark's famous Horn of the Hunter. The guys was a shotgun expert, so I would assume that he knew how to deal with two triggers. If memory serves he was using a double Westley Richards 470 Nitro Express which I am pretty sure I read in one of his books he "hired" (rented) locally for the hunt. The part that is a bit confusing to me is that, still if memory serves, he apparently had that same rifle double on him on at least two different safaris. So much, I guess, for rented rifles and local gunsmithing in Kenya in the 1950's ... unless the rifle owners tested it and concluded that Uncle Bob too was somehow double squeezing under recoil (?)

    Intercepting sears...

    By the way Philip Glass, what do you mean by "the Krieghoff can’t double fire due to the ingenious design"? I believe that it is the Heym that has intercepting sears as a mechanical device to prevent doubling, not the Krieghoff, but I may be missing something...
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
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  8. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    One Day,
    Thank you for saving me time to document the difference between a gun doubling and a shooter doubling.

    I expect that the latter is much more common than the former.
     
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  9. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    It happens,not so often,like a "Monday car" and is not always easy to fix. No matter which manufacturer it is.
    I know at least a heavy accident thereby.
    The double of a friend doubles (from time to time) , when the rear trigger is pulled first, many gunsmiths have already bitten their teeth off.

    Let's not kid ourselves about these beautiful weapons out of love.
    A double rifle is a DIVA, captivates by grace and beauty, but in the same breath can be moody and bitchy.
    Besides that,soldered barrels lead a life of their own. Who can deny it?
    Many experienced gunsmiths had sweat beads on their forehead.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
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  10. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    Foxi said "A double rifle is a DIVA, captivates by grace and beauty, but in the same breath can be moody and bitchy."

    No gun of mine that becomes "moody or bitchy" stays around long. Regardless of appearance, they are all hunting instruments and must function properly all the time. As with women, "grace and beauty" is not as lasting as function and reliability.
     
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  11. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    Are you talking from guns or doubles ???
    I would immediately know three double rifles you to name - renowned manufacturer - if there the ammunition must be changed, they no longer shoot with others.
    That is double rifles loose in most cases.
    I already call that bitchy.
     

  12. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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  13. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    im waiting for the fire sale to begin to make this purchase a reality. So I need to come down and preview the vault before the sale.
     
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  14. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Elite

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    We should all have good friends like you Charlie.
     
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  15. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    I know Toby well.
     
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  16. Bushpig4Ever

    Bushpig4Ever AH Enthusiast

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    Correct. Mine has nickel platings which means the gun is much better protected, however the engravings don't look as nice as nitride finished. I would like to have it altered to nitride finish but Krieghoff advised against it.
     

  17. Opposite Pole

    Opposite Pole AH Fanatic

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    It’s always a trade off.

    Since it’s almost Christmas I wish everyone here to be able to have their guns gold, ruthenium or platinum plated. They all resist corrosion pretty well.
     

  18. Major Khan

    Major Khan AH Fanatic

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    They look beautiful . I would be interested in the .500/416 Nitro Express calibre offering . Based on my understanding of ballistics , it seems like a very good cartridge , 1 which could easily match ( or dare l say even supersede ) the old .450/400 Nitro Express calibre of my time .
    Go for it , Toby458
     
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