Kreighoff Classic Big Five

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by TOBY458, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    After my last Buffalo excursion, I feel myself wanting another double rifle. After a lot of research, I keep coming back to the Kreighoff. I like the idea of the cocking safety feature, and the anti doubling feature as well. I had a Merkel 140 in 470 NE at one time that I had great results with, but for some reason I'm kind of stuck on the Kreighoff at this time. Thinking 450/400 or 470, but a 500 isn't out of the question.
    Talk me into or out of this rifle. And what caliber would you prefer?
     

  2. MMAL

    MMAL GOLD SUPPORTER AH Enthusiast

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    I have the 500/416 ne. Love it you’re screwed if you think people on this site are gonna stop you from buying a gun. Now if you said you were stuck on a kreighoff with extractors in the only caliber worth having which is ****. Then you would get some negative comments. Good luck
     
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  3. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Great rifle! The 470 or 500/416 will do anything the 500 will without needing a gun carriage.
     

  4. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    Is the 500 a heavier gun in the same model? I figure the Kreighoff was like most other rifles, in that the larger bores were actually lighter. Are the barrels heavier on the 500?
     

  5. Bushpig4Ever

    Bushpig4Ever AH Enthusiast

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    I would rather purchase a Krieghoff By the way I have got one, however 'only‘ in 9,3x74R.
     
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  6. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I’ve read that if you’re only going up to buffalo, the 450/400 is the way to go, but if you're wanting it to handle elephant, then go on up to the 470.
    I’m thinking I could handle a 450/400, but not sure I could control a 470 and up. That said, you’re a lot younger and stronger than me. Hmmm...maybe I should stand there and let you stop my elephant?(n);)
     
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  7. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    It boils down to what you expect to hunt...for buffalo a 450/400 is a good option with pleasant recoil..it will also suffice for the odd elephant...a buddy took an elephant in Zim with a 1906 vintage 450/400 Jeffery top lever hammergun...no problem..

    However...if you plan to hunt elephant extensively take the .470 or even better a .500..

    I have a Big Five in .470...love the extra safety built in, ie that you can carry a loaded non-cocked rifle...not sure about the other calibers but my .470 balance like the old brit doubles...something I prefer. Some german double rifles tend to be front heavy...something I dislike..
     
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  8. Opposite Pole

    Opposite Pole AH Fanatic

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    I’ve got the K Gun in 470 and 9.3x74R. I love mine. I’ve shot 500 at the factory also, the recoil didn’t feel all that different but it “pushed” you further slowing down the return on the target a bit more than the 470.
     
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  9. perttime

    perttime AH Veteran

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    Some are concerned about the hunter forgetting to cock the rifle when they need to shoot. I suppose practice helps with that.
     
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  10. Bushpig4Ever

    Bushpig4Ever AH Enthusiast

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  11. AZDAVE

    AZDAVE AH Elite

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    I have handled the K-guns a number of times, but haven't bought one yet. (Booked another hunt with the $'s available)

    I like the safety on them and it wouldn't take but a few sessions of practice for it to become second nature. The 450/400 is just a great round that as others have said is about perfect for buffalo and good on an occasional elephant. If you just want something bigger the 470 or 500 will do the trick, with ammo easier to find than the 500/416. But the 500/416 is a great bridge in the gap of the 450/400 and it's bigger brothers. You really can't go wrong with any of the choices. I am sure none of my ramblings helped:ROFLMAO:

    You could buy the K-gun and a couple month’s later trade me for it:)
     

  12. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    (Booked another hunt with the $'s available)Money well spent.
     
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  13. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Elite

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    The Krieghoff is an amazing double and the one I would choose above all others.
    Although there is a lot to be said about spending the $ on a hunt over the rifle.
    Depends on how passionately you really feel about either the rifle or the hunt.

    As for caliber, I've alway been fond of the 500/416.
    Big enough for all comers although availabity is a very real issue.
     
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  14. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    beautiful,isn't it ?
    the Krieghoff Big Five.
    [​IMG]
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2019
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  15. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    yes go with the 470! That way we can go hunt buffalo together and both have ammo if something goes wrong traveling across the water!
     

  16. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    That's how great minds think Charlie!
     
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  17. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    you got pictures of the rifle your looking at
     
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  18. Philip Glass

    Philip Glass AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I bought the .470 last year. I had some try to direct me to the 450/500 and all tried to talk me out of the .500. I am happy with it for some of the reasons you mention. The safety is fantastic and very functional. I know it’s just too weird for the English crowd. Every time there is a big bore shoot what do you hear about the most? Huh? It’s how many people doubled in front of everyone! The Kreighoff can’t double fire due to the ingenious design. I just put the Kahles red dot sight on mine. Ready to go on another hunt with it, soon I hope.
    Go for the K gun you won’t be disappointed.
    Regards,
    Philip
     
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  19. One Day...

    One Day... AH Fanatic

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    I shoot the K gun in .470 TOBY458, so I am obviously biased. Mine was custom ordered with a blued action. I really dislike the nickel plating to begin with, and even more when it starts chipping away :A Ill:

    But I will try to be objective.

    Regarding caliber...

    To each their own!

    I fully acknowledge the popularity of the .40+ cal double rifles, but I do not differentiate between buff or elephant, I differentiate between "killing" and "stopping".

    I suspect that like the .404 Jeffery bolt action rifles, the 450/400 doubles are popular because they are stepping into big bore territory, while still providing mid-bore recoil. Are they great killers? Absolutely! Are they great "stoppers"? No.
    Apparently they have always lacked the frontal area of larger calibers, the bullet weight, and the raw power to fully belong to the club. Most pros for the last hundred years - I mean the pros with literally thousands of elephants and buffalo to their individual credit - have argued that a .45+ caliber 500 gr bullet delivering 5,000 ft/lbs of energy is the right minimal recipe for a charge stopper. The 450/400 delivers a .40 caliber 400 gr bullet at 4,000 ft/lbs. It is simply not enough for a "stopper." Pretty good for a DG rifle, but not for a "stopper."

    Like the .416 Rigby (and all its modern derivatives trying to copy it in shorter cases, albeit at significantly higher pressure), the 500/.416 bridges the gap between the .375 and the .45. In so many words, it almost (but not quite) delivers a .450 / .458 / .470 punch (albeit with less frontal area and less energy: 40 cal and 4,700 ft/lbs), with almost the ballistic trajectory of a .375. It can handle a charge (although not being the best at it) and it can still shoot plains game at 200 yards (although not being the best at it), but in which case it really needs to be scoped.
    As much as I left the .375 H&H bolt action bandwagon for the .416 Rigby bandwagon, I really am not interested in the 500/416. I am not really sure what the .416 Rigby trajectory does for a by-definition close quarter rifle such as a double. Sure, scoping it helps bridging that gap, but it still will not shoot as accurately as a bolt action at 200 yards, and it will not stop as well as a .450 / .458 / .470 / .500 at close range. A solution in search of a problem?

    My personal take is that if someone is going to spend $15,000 to $20,000 (or more) on a double rifle, for that money one would want a dual purpose killer/stopper double. That means a .450 / .470 / .500.

    The difference between .450 / .470 / .500 is small enough that I would have bought either of the three, had there been a financial incentive. It ended up being a .470 because that there was nothing to save with a .450 or .500, and .470 ammo is SO MUCH easier to find...

    Regarding the safety / cocking mechanism...

    The answer is in two parts, because the cocking system acts as both a cocker/decocker and a safety:

    1) It is objectively not as easy and unobtrusive to switch ON/OFF as a regular safety is (you need to exert a certain pressure to coil the strikers' springs), so if you are in the habit of switching automatically the safety on/off as you mount/dismount a shotgun or double rifle to your shoulder, it is not as smooth as a traditional safety. I appreciated this smoothness on my previous double, a traditional pre-WWII Jules Burry 450 #2.

    2) It is objectively immensely safer than a regular trigger-locking safety when carrying the gun, especially in single file, when muzzle safety can be challenging, because the gun can be fully loaded while fully safe (uncocked), even more so than a firing pin-locking safety (e.g. Mauser or Winchester "3 positions safety," Weatherby safety, etc.) makes a bolt action as close to fully safe as possible while loaded.

    Overall, I feel unquestionably safer along the hunt with this system, but I DID have to acquire a new muscle memory reflex to cock it as I mount the gun.

    A third part to the answer, is to clarify that contrarily to what has been said by some, when the Kreighoff cocker has been cocked, it remains in the cocked position, even when the gun is opened and reloaded, so there is no requirement to recock the gun after it is opened (as I believe the Blaser S2 requires). Reloads are therefore entirely identical to those with traditional guns: break open, flick the empties out, drop two fresh shells, close, aim, shoot. Or if you do not need to shoot again, you can then decock any time you later want.

    So, in summary: it is different; it works; like everything new, it needs to be learned; and, in my view, it is an improvement. I never felt comfortable resting my two hands on top of the muzzles of my .450 #2 - and I always cringe when I see someone do it and trust 100% the trigger safety of their fully loaded double - but I would now feel safe resting my hands on top of my uncocked Kreighoff .470 ... if it was not bad muzzle safety discipline anyway :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019

  20. Bushpig4Ever

    Bushpig4Ever AH Enthusiast

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    The name of the company is KRIEGHOFF, that‘s why the rifle is called KRIEGHOFF CLASSIC BIG FIVE.

    Odd, people are interested in a gun from Krieghoff company but unable to spell the name properly.

    What about Vilkswagen, Morcedes, BMV, Tramp etc ?
     
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