Ivan the terrible or did the Russians accidentally build a budget stalking rifle ?

[mark-hunter]

So I put the question to before the AH brethren did the Russians accidentally build a budget stalking rifle or did I simply purchase Ivan the terrible as my dear friend and hunting buddy has coined it?

If it shoots well, dont worry.

Once you have time and money to invest, make new stock and proper bluing for "Ivan the terrible", and ugly duckling will turn to beautiful swan.

 

[7x57Joe]

Here are a few Tarted up, not mine.

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This is the replacement model MP 121 I think it’s called.

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Proof positive that a sow's ear can be turned into a beautiful silk purse! Would love to have one of those gorgeous rifles, especially in 7x57!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My fascination with single shot rifles has stuck with me from childhood. Could it be from growing up in a household where a martini enfield in .303 was still seeing regular service or perhaps it was like so many others a childhood fascination with Mathew Quigley and his big sharps.

what ever the reason may be by the time I became a member of AH I’d already owned several single shot rifles my first single and actually first deer rifle was a H&r or N.e.f can’t remember which in .308 it cost 475 dollars with a bushnell dusk till dawn on it and at the time I thought that was a clear fortune to spend on a deer rifle. Tastes and expenses have grown exponentially sense then to the point where for a time I was regularly putting tables in gun shows and helping to organize several local ones.

Higher quality tastes in my personal firearms along with the need for frequent parts for guns being flipped lead me to striking up a friendship with local gentleman whom is a highly respected gunsmith. He would eventually build me two semi custom tikkas one in 300wm and one in .22lr and then pushing my luck a third on the same platform in .458wm.

The above mentioned.458 wm is the rifle which started this whole tangent off. The rifle was built using a t3x lite as a starting point and truthfully the build was little more than a rebarrel job with some frills and dressings thrown in. A shortened barrel of 20 inches a break installed to try and tame muzzle flip and lessen recoil and a Leupold red dot would be the final touches all back in the original synthetic stock and weighing about 3 pounds less than fit for a rifle of that caliber.

Some of the members who have been around for awhile will remember the late Safari Kidd who seemed to be completely immune to recoil and in love with short under weight rifles this rifle should of been dedicated to his memory. Somehow against all odds and all that is natural in the world I found a sale for that .458 to a younger gentleman who I can only assume has some sort of fetish for extreme recoil or just doesn’t like his shoulders the way god designed them. The young gentleman actually tracked me down and made an offer on the .458 that I hadn’t even bothered to advertise thinking that I would have to restock it and see if added weight could tame it down. An offer that was actually more than I had in the entire build so I readily accepted.

The sale of the above mentioned.458 left me a hole in my gun cabinet a built in affair with glass doors and 12 slots that can be seen from my bed and as any good gunman knows nothing is worse than having an empty stall in the stable. That’s not to say that I am limited to that number of guns by any stretch the “gun room” in my house is testament to that fact simply those twelve guns consist of the family heirlooms and those I actually deem as “mine” not those I’m working on or those I only bought to sell.

So for a time I browsed the internet looking for a suitable stablemate for the herd. I thought I’d settled on a F.A.I.R combi for the that slot but decided against it when a thread I started on here got mixed reviews at best added to a 6-8 month wait and then the knowledge that a scope mount was an additional 800$ which seems unreasonable on top of a 2800$ price for an Italian made piece.

By this point I was beginning to get desperate I’ve got gun money to spend and no place to put it if I’m not careful my gun money will get wasted on other less important things like the greenhouse my wife keeps nagging me for or window dressings. I browsed several local gunshows to no avail until out of desperation one night I expanded my search perimeters on gunpost to the entire country instead of just my home province. And that’s when I found it my next rifle.

Not a high dollar piece of multi caliber like I was searching for not a multi shot rifle of bolt of leaver action no the humble single shot Baikal. Any who have spent a little time dealing guns have heard all the Baikal jokes the barrels are made of melted down tanks …the stocks of Siberian sleeper cars … you can no longer import Baikals because Russia recommissioned the t34s that should of been scrapped ect.

I made a deal with the seller and waited on Canada post in the mean time I ordered 200 rounds of federal blue box for it , happened upon a Burris full field scope on discount to Canadian tire 2.5-10x42 for 200$ out the door because it was the display and the sales staff had managed to loose the box. A set of weaver classic 22 rings would finish the package. Got to get that gun money spent before it’s wasted gardening after all.

Well gentleman it has arrived I now have the Baikal and have installed the scope , I’ve yet to shoot it but so far it seems to be everything I dreamed it would be completely utilitarian. It swings and points well like a single shot shotgun and actually has a decent trigger breaking at just over four pounds. There are some cosmetic flaws with the rifle which I knew when purchasing at some point a previous owner moved the sights further down the barrel and then the owner I bought it from moved them back leaving a scar I will eventually have to reblue.

I know this rifle will never compete with the likes of the continental makers but likewise I’m unlikely to don lederhosen and chase chamois in the Bavarian alps I’m far more comfortable on a pitching deck then a rock slope.

So I put the question to before the AH brethren did the Russians accidentally build a budget stalking rifle or did I simply purchase Ivan the terrible as my dear friend and hunting buddy has coined it?
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@Tubby’s Canteen
Depending on what you want it for.
Don't expect moa accuracy out of it, 2" is fine
It won't win any beauty contests ( a bit like it's owner ha ha ha) but will scrub up half way decent
For a knock about totally practical utilitarian rifle in an adequate cal, looks like 30-06 it will put meat in the freezer out to 200.
If'n you don't like it after a few shots keep the scope and send it down the road.

What ever happened to that little 25-20 double you were building on a 410 shotgun frame and barrels.
I think you should build the wife her green house and give her some new curtains. Earn a few brownie points. Happy wife happy life so I'm told.
Then you can go to the gun shop and say honey look what I found for our son and no questions will be asked.
Bob

Nothing wrong with that, I know a man that has probably $100K worth of various high end weapons but refuses to hunt deer with any beside his H&R 25-06

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Nothing wrong with that, I know a man that has probably $100K worth of various high end weapons but refuses to hunt deer with any beside his H&R 25-06

@deewayne2003
Would love one of those H&Rs in 25-06.
John Barness bought one as he had never owned a 25-06. That thing right out of the box surprised the heck out of him by shooting well und moa groups.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If it shoots well, dont worry.

Once you have time and money to invest, make new stock and proper bluing for "Ivan the terrible", and ugly duckling will turn to beautiful swan.

@mark-hunter
Y'all can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig, just a pretty pig.
Why tart it up, just clean it up and have fun it's a working rifle not a show pony.
Knowing Tubby it will be out to work and won't be pampered. More ammo or another gun instead of pretty wood in a budget rifle in my book. My book ain't real thick tho but the owner is.
Bob

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

@Tubby’s Canteen
Depending on what you want it for.
Don't expect moa accuracy out of it, 2" is fine
It won't win any beauty contests ( a bit like it's owner ha ha ha) but will scrub up half way decent
For a knock about totally practical utilitarian rifle in an adequate cal, looks like 30-06 it will put meat in the freezer out to 200.
If'n you don't like it after a few shots keep the scope and send it down the road.

What ever happened to that little 25-20 double you were building on a 410 shotgun frame and barrels.
I think you should build the wife her green house and give her some new curtains. Earn a few brownie points. Happy wife happy life so I'm told.
Then you can go to the gun shop and say honey look what I found for our son and no questions will be asked.
Bob

I built her a green house Bob , it was one of those times where the wife knew what she wanted but not what she needed. She wanted one of those cheap prefab greenhouses from a box store that would survive about one day to my place. We get a serious amount of wind load. I built her one out of plastic panels and rough milled lumber.

I ended up making a cape gun set up out of that spare set of barrels .410 and 22 hornet just way easier to get ammunition for the hornet.

 

[ZG47]

My fascination with single shot rifles has stuck with me from childhood. Could it be from growing up in a household where a martini enfield in .303 was still seeing regular service or perhaps it was like so many others a childhood fascination with Mathew Quigley and his big sharps.

what ever the reason may be by the time I became a member of AH I’d already owned several single shot rifles my first single and actually first deer rifle was a H&r or N.e.f can’t remember which in .308 it cost 475 dollars with a bushnell dusk till dawn on it and at the time I thought that was a clear fortune to spend on a deer rifle. Tastes and expenses have grown exponentially sense then to the point where for a time I was regularly putting tables in gun shows and helping to organize several local ones.

Higher quality tastes in my personal firearms along with the need for frequent parts for guns being flipped lead me to striking up a friendship with local gentleman whom is a highly respected gunsmith. He would eventually build me two semi custom tikkas one in 300wm and one in .22lr and then pushing my luck a third on the same platform in .458wm.

The above mentioned.458 wm is the rifle which started this whole tangent off. The rifle was built using a t3x lite as a starting point and truthfully the build was little more than a rebarrel job with some frills and dressings thrown in. A shortened barrel of 20 inches a break installed to try and tame muzzle flip and lessen recoil and a Leupold red dot would be the final touches all back in the original synthetic stock and weighing about 3 pounds less than fit for a rifle of that caliber.

Some of the members who have been around for awhile will remember the late Safari Kidd who seemed to be completely immune to recoil and in love with short under weight rifles this rifle should of been dedicated to his memory. Somehow against all odds and all that is natural in the world I found a sale for that .458 to a younger gentleman who I can only assume has some sort of fetish for extreme recoil or just doesn’t like his shoulders the way god designed them. The young gentleman actually tracked me down and made an offer on the .458 that I hadn’t even bothered to advertise thinking that I would have to restock it and see if added weight could tame it down. An offer that was actually more than I had in the entire build so I readily accepted.

The sale of the above mentioned.458 left me a hole in my gun cabinet a built in affair with glass doors and 12 slots that can be seen from my bed and as any good gunman knows nothing is worse than having an empty stall in the stable. That’s not to say that I am limited to that number of guns by any stretch the “gun room” in my house is testament to that fact simply those twelve guns consist of the family heirlooms and those I actually deem as “mine” not those I’m working on or those I only bought to sell.

So for a time I browsed the internet looking for a suitable stablemate for the herd. I thought I’d settled on a F.A.I.R combi for the that slot but decided against it when a thread I started on here got mixed reviews at best added to a 6-8 month wait and then the knowledge that a scope mount was an additional 800$ which seems unreasonable on top of a 2800$ price for an Italian made piece.

By this point I was beginning to get desperate I’ve got gun money to spend and no place to put it if I’m not careful my gun money will get wasted on other less important things like the greenhouse my wife keeps nagging me for or window dressings. I browsed several local gunshows to no avail until out of desperation one night I expanded my search perimeters on gunpost to the entire country instead of just my home province. And that’s when I found it my next rifle.

Not a high dollar piece of multi caliber like I was searching for not a multi shot rifle of bolt of leaver action no the humble single shot Baikal. Any who have spent a little time dealing guns have heard all the Baikal jokes the barrels are made of melted down tanks …the stocks of Siberian sleeper cars … you can no longer import Baikals because Russia recommissioned the t34s that should of been scrapped ect.

I made a deal with the seller and waited on Canada post in the mean time I ordered 200 rounds of federal blue box for it , happened upon a Burris full field scope on discount to Canadian tire 2.5-10x42 for 200$ out the door because it was the display and the sales staff had managed to loose the box. A set of weaver classic 22 rings would finish the package. Got to get that gun money spent before it’s wasted gardening after all.

Well gentleman it has arrived I now have the Baikal and have installed the scope , I’ve yet to shoot it but so far it seems to be everything I dreamed it would be completely utilitarian. It swings and points well like a single shot shotgun and actually has a decent trigger breaking at just over four pounds. There are some cosmetic flaws with the rifle which I knew when purchasing at some point a previous owner moved the sights further down the barrel and then the owner I bought it from moved them back leaving a scar I will eventually have to reblue.

I know this rifle will never compete with the likes of the continental makers but likewise I’m unlikely to don lederhosen and chase chamois in the Bavarian alps I’m far more comfortable on a pitching deck then a rock slope.

So I put the question to before the AH brethren did the Russians accidentally build a budget stalking rifle or did I simply purchase Ivan the terrible as my dear friend and hunting buddy has coined it?
View attachment 767015View attachment 767016View attachment 767017View attachment 767018

Good buy. Based on what is, essentially, a stalking shotgun i.e., a gun for pot shooting. Given the inherent strength and durability of the system, I suspect that it was always intended for dual use. I also understand that: the triggers are better on these Izhevsk-made rifles than on Bergara break-open guns.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I built her a green house Bob , it was one of those times where the wife knew what she wanted but not what she needed. She wanted one of those cheap prefab greenhouses from a box store that would survive about one day to my place. We get a serious amount of wind load. I built her one out of plastic panels and rough milled lumber.

I ended up making a cape gun set up out of that spare set of barrels .410 and 22 hornet just way easier to get ammunition for the hornet.

@Tubby’s Canteen
So how does the little cape gun shoot.
Bob

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

@Tubby’s Canteen
So how does the little cape gun shoot.
Bob

Nothing overly impressive , 2” groups at fifty yards I use it still hunting rabbits occasionally but it could get reworked at a later date.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Nothing overly impressive , 2” groups at fifty yards I use it still hunting rabbits occasionally but it could get reworked at a later date.

@Tubby’s Canteen
2" group for a shotgun ain't bad but not real good for a Hornet.
Bob

 

[coreydb]

You done good buying that rifle. I tried buying the CZ BRNO Effect in 30.06 but no one around where I live ever had one on the shelf. They're not made anymore from what I understand.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Just an update sighted Ivan in with 180 grain federal tonight, under 2 inch groups at 50 yards in a 15 or so mph head wind I was impressed with the rifle. Probably going to be what I carry this fall after bear and whitetail.

For those good with ballistic calculations a 308 shooting 180 grain federal from a 22” barrel what can I expect for rise at 100yards and drop at 200yards?

 

[mark-hunter]

make a 100 mtrs zero,
at 200 meters, drop will be about 14 cm. (5.5 inch)

Or, make about 6 cm (2.36 inch) plus at 100 meters and you will have zero at 200 meters.

I did not calculate, I type from memory.
The differences with any calculator will be within accuracy of the barrel (1 moa, or similar), thus insignificant.

 

[yumastepside]

Sarg, the Baikal in the top 3 pics belongs to Chris Dawes, a gunsmith from Canada, he also built a beautiful 303 Enfield.
I have a Baikal in 7.62x39 to use up all my old SKS ammo, then I will rebarrel it to 6.5x39...

Chris' 303...

Roger

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Sarg, the Baikal in the top 3 pics belongs to Chris Dawes, a gunsmith from Canada, he also built a beautiful 303 Enfield.
I have a Baikal in 7.62x39 to use up all my old SKS ammo, then I will rebarrel it to 6.5x39...

Chris' 303...
View attachment 792484

Roger

It might of belonged to him at one point but not anymore I picked it up off gunpost this spring from someone in ontario.

Edit: after having coffee I realized you were talking about the rifle in @Sarg posts not the one I posted.