Is it ok to give your PH a size wish list

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by justin wiles, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. justin wiles

    justin wiles AH Member

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    Hunting 1:1. Before the hunt. Is it ok to tell your PH the size animal you would like to shoot for each animal? Say you have 10 days and 5 main target animals and 2-3 other animals you would take if the animal presents itself. Do most PH have set standards on trophy size?
     

  2. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I have talked over size with all my Ph's but also tell them that is a guide line. Also tell them my mind could change also based on how I thought a stalk was . I have taken animals smaller then I said at first just based on the hunt and how it happened.

    I also tell them it is a guide and I am ok if there off a little. I think size can help and hurt you sometimes but it is always best to share your wants and likes on your hunt.
     

  3. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    It's your hunt that you're paying for. So long as your requirements are reasonable, I think it perfectly fine. If you've already decided on your outfitter, be certain what you want is also reasonable for where you're going.

    Having said that, be careful you don't get caught in chasing the tape, you'll end up disappointed.
     

  4. Ragman

    Ragman AH Fanatic

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    Personally I'd never do it. But I'm not concerned with measurements or scores. Takes away the enjoyment of the hunt for me. I'll just let my PH know that I want mature animals and if we get bigger than average that's great. I have 110% confidence in the man who will be my PH in July.
     
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  5. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Some game ranches can likely guarantee a threshold - most free range areas would be less likely to do so. The PH's in my experience, regardless of concession type, have all been dedicated to finding mature (my most important criteria) representative animals. On a given hunt some would make the "book" some would not. I entered several after my first African hunt, and haven't done so again. And I have taken many subsequently that would score very high in both SCI or R&W. However, I can certainly understand if that is a goal. I have never been urged to shoot what I would call a "cull" animal while "trophy" hunting. And I am confident that you will find yourself in a constant dialogue with your PH about what animal to take. All will leave the final decision to shoot up to you. Your PH will want you to be happy, and assuming it is an environment that will produce your goal, will do everything in his power to ensure you both are successful. I would just be very careful about making judgements about the success of a safari based on the measurement of the tape.
     
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  6. Art Lambart II

    Art Lambart II AH Fanatic

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    On my first safari I had a great time and would hunt with the Outfitter and PH again but I didn't talk about my expectations with him and as a result I shot Kudu that did not make book. I don't fault the PH for this I blame myself for not being clear about my expectations. With that said your expectation have to be realistic, expecting 6 gold medals on an 8 day hunt is probably to much to ask.
     
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  7. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    I let my Outfitters and PH's know what I am after. I have specifically stated that I am interested in hunting for a Rowland Ward Trophy. That's just my goal. It may require many more days of hunting without shooting anything. I think it is reasonable to let the guys know what you are up to.
    It is your choice when to pull the trigger

    If you don't let the PH know beforehand and they keep pointing out "representative specimens" and you don't shoot, they are going to be catching on pretty quickly.
    In some cases I have heard of pressure being applied on the hunter to shoot something.
    They are all making money from trophy fees.

    Just be up front with your plan. Then the professionals can work with you to meet your needs.

    eg. 5 days walk and stalk after a Vaal Rhebuck with a bow. 6 days chasing a Bushbuck with a bow, passing up good specimens and screwing up stalks. This is not a typical first time hunt, the pros need to know and agree to that kind of hunt.
     

  8. Ndumo Hunting Safaris

    Ndumo Hunting Safaris SPONSOR Since 2016 AH Enthusiast

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    Yes, its OK as long as you are reasonable in your expectations, and dont become too hung up on size alone.
     
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  9. Nyati

    Nyati AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I tell my PH I want to hunt old animals, regardless of size, they like to hear that, and then do their best, without undue pressure.

    Of course, most of these do make RW, but I could not care less about the tape.

    For those who are really concerned about size, there are Outfitters who will guarantee whatever the client wants......at a premium price. They will just buy the animal and put it in a nice enclosure where it can be easily shot. I have seen it done, with sable and buffalo.
     

  10. Buckdog

    Buckdog AH Enthusiast

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    Justin,
    I always talk about the quality of the game before I book a hunt and what my expectations are. I think it is an important point that many hunters don't think about before they book. In RSA it is a pay to play game for the most part especially on the high fence and especially some species aka sable, roan, buff. If you say you are looking for a certain trophy class up front they may say nope cant do that or sure but that will cost more. The bargain package hunt deals are going to be shooting "representative" size animals not likely any trophy size animals.
    Dirty little secret no one like to say is for the most part inside the high fence they know EXACTLY WHAT SIZE IS IN THERE, it is there job to know. The animals are bought sold, inventoried, captured, moved, etc..
    Now that all said any good PH likes to get his client the best quality critters he can given the circumstancs, just be up front with him and most will be honest in return. If a good deal on a critter comes along have some extra cash then take it out. And if they know you are in the mood for some extras then some extras they will find you;)
    FYI I am a SCI measurer and unlike Nyati I do care about the tape.
     
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  11. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Buckdog I know you like to think there is a lot of secrets but your info is not as true as you think it is. Yes if a guy wants a 60" kudu and nothing else most will take you to a place that is stocked with them. But there has been 58" to 60" kudu taken by pure luck on many fenced areas.

    The outfitter try's to find what the hunter wants and then does his best to get him the best he can normally. We take way better then representative animals alot of the time at the same prices guys will pay if they get lucky enough to take a silver or gold level animal. It happens way more then you think and happening even more now that the game market has crashed.

    Some one tells any outfitter they want all gold medal or nothing but wants to take 7 or 10 animal in 10 days yes then you will for sure hunt special places and pay more for it. To label most hunts like you like to do is very misleading at best to guys looking for info.
     

  12. Bhfs300

    Bhfs300 AH Fanatic

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    I would definitely tell you PH/Owner what size of the trophies you want.
    On my first safari my package was picked be the Kudu. That determined the cost of the hunt. I was the last person to hunt with them that year. Another hunter started with them a couple days before me. He didn’t have a Kudu on his list so I thought I was ok. When he wasn’t able to get his top two animals he put them together and decided to go after a Kudu.
    He was hunting with the owner so the owner took him the a neighbor that didn’t have people hunt on his land and he wounded a great Kudu there. He had his son hunt the same spot till the animal showed up again and he killed him. His first Kudu.
    I hunted the land of the owner for my whole time with my PH and I finally got a shot at a Kudu that fit the minimum requirement for a trophy at this property so I took it. I also wounded it and spent the next two days hunting the same blind for my wounded trophy.
    On my last day I got another shot at him and got to send him to the taxidermist.
    A couple years later I was told by a person at their booth that they would never shoot a Kudu less than 50 inches. Let’s say mine ended up a ways below 50”.
    Tell your owner/PH what your expectation are.
    That way maybe they will not have you not happy with what you get!
     
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  13. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Sure seems like the above proves out the point made below. Don't know why else crashing prices would create better animals if not being bought, sold, inventoried, moved, captured, etc....

     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  14. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    It proved the point some did it but not all. Plain and simple to many people pretend to know and scare people on they will not get good animals unless they pay more. Now even less people are doing as it is not worth it. 5 years later I can still say the same as I did back then that is it bs if you look around and use the right places to hunt.
     

  15. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Low fence ranch country/ tribal areas/ or the wilderness and a PH working his butt off to find the best possible animal. What is not to like.
     
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  16. Buckdog

    Buckdog AH Enthusiast

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    Oh sure billC
    sables aren't sold by the inch and roan aren't either, then tell Pieter I will be right over I want a 30 inch roan and a 44 inch sable for dirt cheap that just might be happening to be running around and I could be lucky and just bump into them and the game farmer wouldn't care if I popped his 44 inch sable instead of the 38 I was paying for, BS the big critters are weighed and measure, they are money on the hoof. Bill, it isn't fair to mislead someone either that if they buy xyz hunt for a very low price they can envision shooting a bunch of trophy class animals in that hunt. they guys gotta make a living and the animals are a commodity in a high fence to say they are not is wrong. Some PH get better deals on the critters, or acess to a new farm etc and they can offer some good deals and yes the prices are down. I was at an auction last yr and the prices were def down.
    Now if we are talking free range low fence hunt then that's a different ball game.
    So no offense to you or Pieter and I like you both and Pawprint def has a knack for getting good animals at fair prices(y) and I think all Ph try to get the best animals they can for the client and their profit, BUT they are not in business to loose money.
    So anytime Pieter has a 30inch roan and 44inch sable for me and I can pay price for say 38inch sable and a 26 inch roan and the game farmer wont care at all or charge extra when I pull the trigger on the big ones I will be right over! throw in a monster tssebbe thing too!
     
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  17. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Sounds like a perfect opportunity to take advantage of the no day fee offer. Free hunt or awesome trophies. Can't wait to read the hunt report! :)
     
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  18. Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris

    Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Enthusiast

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    i run a "high fence operation" 5500ha of high fence and see animals every year that I never knew were there!!!
    never introduced a single kudu on Tallyho and average around 54" every year and actually its slowly increasing, have shot 2 x 60" kudu over the years. so your theory on high fence areas is way off!!!
    maybe on 500ha of grassland sure.

    regards
     

  19. Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris

    Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Enthusiast

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    disagree again!!!
    maybe I run a different outfit
    at Tallyho a kudu is a kudu, 48" or 60"
    a sable is a sable 36" or 44"
    a roan is a roan 24" or 30"
    and a tsessebe too
    my point is most places don't run like that and if they have a big enough area that is self sustainable there is no way you can know every animal on there.
    and BTW the more they measure, capture, move animals the more expensive it should be, vets don't work for free

    regards
     
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  20. Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris

    Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Enthusiast

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    I would say discuss your wishes with your outfitter and be open as to what is reasonable for the area you are hunting. a 55'' kudu in the eastern cape is very rare. a good impala in the free state is scarce etc
    some animals are more suited to different areas and terrain and hence seem to reach their growth potential, and different environmental factors in different areas impact on growth potential.
    enjoy the hunt
    remember why you are there

    regards
     
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