Infections on the Rise, Johannesburg Mayor Dies: Virus Update

Mountaineer

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Just returned from Africa and no positive test either side of the pond. Do ask lots of questions before you go. Example-will the country I’m flying out of accept a doctor’s letter as recovery. Some do not so you are there until negative test. Work with your PH on cost per day for 1 week, 2 weeks etc. know what you could get into and then go shoot’m up and have a great time.
 
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I have already cancelled three trips, and here in Australia we are back in lockdown Number 5. I still hope to get to RSA one day, but won't be for a few years now. (n);)
@TheoR8
I'm feeling your pain mate, I'm in NSW and it looks like we will be in lockdown until the end of September. Can't even get to the range and even our gun shops are closed.
Bob
 

sestoppelman

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@TheoR8
I'm feeling your pain mate, I'm in NSW and it looks like we will be in lockdown until the end of September. Can't even get to the range and even our gun shops are closed.
Bob
I can put up with most BS, but when they close the ranges, its a whole other animal!! Ours was closed for several months early on, I about went nuckin futz!
Hoping we dont have to do that again here as well.
 
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I can put up with most BS, but when they close the ranges, its a whole other animal!! Ours was closed for several months early on, I about went nuckin futz!
Hoping we dont have to do that again here as well.
@sestoppelman
It's that bad I'm thinking of using Hoppes No9 as after shave to remind me of the smell of a nice clean rifle.
Bob
 

sestoppelman

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I will ask perhaps a controversial question and see what kinds of answers we get.

Can it be proven that the vaccines work? In other words, its like trying to prove that breaking in a barrel does something mystical to make it a better shooter right? You can only break in a barrel once, so how do you know that it worked as opposed to just shooting the snot out of it? Either way it may be a great shooter or may be a lemon.
In a one off situation like this that we are in, whats the proof that it works. In particular with this Covid since the vaccines had no where near the testing period that most vaccines go thru which are measured in years, not weeks and a much larger human testing group.

Its also known now that the incidence of injury with these vaccines is higher than previous vaccines.
I am not saying the vaccines dont work, maybe they are but how do you prove it?

Take a sample person. Give them the shots, do they get Covid? Probably not. Would they have gotten Covid with no shots? Maybe. Maybe not. There is simply no way to tell.
Its like buying insurance. You are gambling that you will need it, the insurance company is gambling you wont.

Now guys, dont get sore at me, just asking a question. Call it a brain tease.

Food for thought.(y)
 

375Fox

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I will ask perhaps a controversial question and see what kinds of answers we get.

Can it be proven that the vaccines work? In other words, its like trying to prove that breaking in a barrel does something mystical to make it a better shooter right? You can only break in a barrel once, so how do you know that it worked as opposed to just shooting the snot out of it? Either way it may be a great shooter or may be a lemon.
In a one off situation like this that we are in, whats the proof that it works. In particular with this Covid since the vaccines had no where near the testing period that most vaccines go thru which are measured in years, not weeks and a much larger human testing group.

Its also known now that the incidence of injury with these vaccines is higher than previous vaccines.
I am not saying the vaccines dont work, maybe they are but how do you prove it?

Take a sample person. Give them the shots, do they get Covid? Probably not. Would they have gotten Covid with no shots? Maybe. Maybe not. There is simply no way to tell.
Its like buying insurance. You are gambling that you will need it, the insurance company is gambling you wont.

Now guys, dont get sore at me, just asking a question. Call it a brain tease.

Food for thought.(y)
If you ask this question, there’s no answer that will prove to you they do work at this time. The percentage of hospital cases who have had vs not had the vaccine is very telling that they are effective to me at least in the short term. If getting the vaccine substantially reduces my risk of needing to go to a doctor/hospital in Africa and increases my likelihood of a negative test so I can return home, it’s worth getting to me.
 

sestoppelman

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If you ask this question, there’s no answer that will prove to you they do work at this time. The percentage of hospital cases who have had vs not had the vaccine is very telling that they are effective to me at least in the short term. If getting the vaccine substantially reduces my risk of needing to go to a doctor/hospital in Africa and increases my likelihood of a negative test so I can return home, it’s worth getting to me.
Playing devils advocate here of course, but again, and I think you agree that is basically an unprovable when you get right down to it. Empirical evidence would seem to show it does work for most and is safe for most, but obviously not all.
With the increase of new Covid cases in already vac'd folks, it must be considered that its not as effective as some would have us believe.
The folks in govt who say they want everyone to get vac'd are as big an impediment to getting it done as anything else, by the way they go about it.
 

CJW

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With the increase of new Covid cases in already vac'd folks, it must be considered that its not as effective as some would have us believe.

From the beginning they said that vaccinated people can and will get the virus and suffer symptoms but are at almost no risk of dying from it and very little chance of even needing to be treated at a hospital. Yes I know that the survival rate is high anyway, but I have seen too many young healthy people die or at least end up in a hospital from this to chance coming down hard with it in Africa so I got vaccinated. I probably would have held out longer had I not booked a trip this year.
 

MarkB

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The data that's "published" says that I have an almost 0% chance of dying from Covid anyway. I fully understand those at risk taking the HUGE vaccine risk.

What I don't understand is WHY every Gov, every department, every news, radio, paid pop stars, movie stars even dam propaganda flyers today in our mail box, maybe next week they will fly planes over and drop get vaccinated pamphlets or have the vaccinated round up us non compliant non vaccinated like in the horror shows. Bring that shit on. Why the big propaganda push, there's a saying, smells like crap, looks like crap, feels like crap, DONT taste it. It is crap.

There has to be an underlying reason to FORCE a world population to get these 60 day tested vaccines. My bet we do not know what that reason is yet. There are those who "believe" its to make me safer than the .006% chance I have of dying from Covid.

My worry, but its still wheels up early tomorrow morning.

MB
 
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I will ask perhaps a controversial question and see what kinds of answers we get.

Can it be proven that the vaccines work? In other words, its like trying to prove that breaking in a barrel does something mystical to make it a better shooter right? You can only break in a barrel once, so how do you know that it worked as opposed to just shooting the snot out of it? Either way it may be a great shooter or may be a lemon.
In a one off situation like this that we are in, whats the proof that it works. In particular with this Covid since the vaccines had no where near the testing period that most vaccines go thru which are measured in years, not weeks and a much larger human testing group.

Its also known now that the incidence of injury with these vaccines is higher than previous vaccines.
I am not saying the vaccines dont work, maybe they are but how do you prove it?

Take a sample person. Give them the shots, do they get Covid? Probably not. Would they have gotten Covid with no shots? Maybe. Maybe not. There is simply no way to tell.
Its like buying insurance. You are gambling that you will need it, the insurance company is gambling you wont.

Now guys, dont get sore at me, just asking a question. Call it a brain tease.

Food for thought.(y)
@sestoppelman
Food for thought to say the least. I know of one member on here who has had prolonged contact with people that have had covid at the time and has always tested negative for the China flu.
At the same time in Australia we have had people that have had the double dose of the vaccine and still got infected be it a lot milder dose so go figure.
The problem as I see it in Australia is that those that have been immunised and get a dose of the China flu but don't show any symptoms. These people then go out in the community and unwittingly spread it around like typhoid Mary.
At our last count we had 124 daily infections in NSW but 70 of those were in the community and not isolating, how many were asymptomatic.
With this type of problem do we opt for herd immunity thru vaccination or infections
I will leave it for other to figure out. I am going for immunised because of my age, ethnicity and health.
Bob
 

MarkB

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@TheoR8
I'm feeling your pain mate, I'm in NSW and it looks like we will be in lockdown until the end of September. Can't even get to the range and even our gun shops are closed.
Bob
For your health I say if legal and possible go out somewhere and heat up a barrel, have some fun. Not sure how strict your lockdown is, can see no gatherings at local ranges but is there no outback/station/sparsely populated areas to have a couple hrs shooting? We use gravel pits, logging blocks or out in the bush more than the limited ranges in Canada. Or are the Trudopes taking over there also? Never been to Australia yet its on my list.

MB
 
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For your health I say if legal and possible go out somewhere and heat up a barrel, have some fun. Not sure how strict your lockdown is, can see no gatherings at local ranges but is there no outback/station/sparsely populated areas to have a couple hrs shooting? We use gravel pits, logging blocks or out in the bush more than the limited ranges in Canada. Or are the Trudopes taking over there also? Never been to Australia yet its on my list.

MB
@MarkB
A bit hard when you can only travel 10 km/ 6 miles.
Bob
 

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I will ask perhaps a controversial question and see what kinds of answers we get.

Can it be proven that the vaccines work? In other words, its like trying to prove that breaking in a barrel does something mystical to make it a better shooter right? You can only break in a barrel once, so how do you know that it worked as opposed to just shooting the snot out of it? Either way it may be a great shooter or may be a lemon.
In a one off situation like this that we are in, whats the proof that it works. In particular with this Covid since the vaccines had no where near the testing period that most vaccines go thru which are measured in years, not weeks and a much larger human testing group.

Its also known now that the incidence of injury with these vaccines is higher than previous vaccines.
I am not saying the vaccines dont work, maybe they are but how do you prove it?

Take a sample person. Give them the shots, do they get Covid? Probably not. Would they have gotten Covid with no shots? Maybe. Maybe not. There is simply no way to tell.
Its like buying insurance. You are gambling that you will need it, the insurance company is gambling you wont.

Now guys, dont get sore at me, just asking a question. Call it a brain tease.

Food for thought.(y)

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