In your opinion what makes a Rigby a "Rigby"?

[Jager01]

for me, to summarize, it's that each of the rifles has a story to tell and the majority were used in times we wished we lived in. It's blend of uniqueness and quality is what makes it stand apart from the crowd, but to you more experienced gentlemen, what is it about a Rigby that speaks to you?

 

[Hank2211]

Some names speak to the history of hunting in Africa. Rigby and a few others - Jeffery, Holland & Holland for example, perhaps Westley Richards - do that in a way that other names don't (I'm talking about bolt action rifles here, not doubles). No one could argue that Purdey doesn't make fine guns, but they don't say "Africa" (though they do say "shotgun"). These are the guns that the great hunters in the "golden age" of African hunting often used. These gunmakers also typically created calibers that are still around today, and when you match the great gun with the caliber that was invented for it, you have an unbeatable combination.

When you hunt Africa, you have to be particularly insensitive not to feel some connection with hunts and hunters of the past. To be able to take one of the guns that reinforces that connection is somehow special.

I feel I'm not being terribly articulate or helpful here, so let me try something else. If you are a handgun shooter in North America, to be able to shoot a Colt, particularly an old single action army (a "Peacemaker"), provides a connection to the opening up of the West that you won't get with any other gun (well, maybe a Winchester 94). But those guns wouldn't resonate in Africa.

Rigby does.

 

[Jager01]

Well put sir, thanks for putting the time into your post.

 

[spike.t]

Some names speak to the history of hunting in Africa. Rigby and a few others - Jeffery, Holland & Holland for example, perhaps Westley Richards - do that in a way that other names don't (I'm talking about bolt action rifles here, not doubles). No one could argue that Purdey doesn't make fine guns, but they don't say "Africa" (though they do say "shotgun"). These are the guns that the great hunters in the "golden age" of African hunting often used. These gunmakers also typically created calibers that are still around today, and when you match the great gun with the caliber that was invented for it, you have an unbeatable combination.

When you hunt Africa, you have to be particularly insensitive not to feel some connection with hunts and hunters of the past. To be able to take one of the guns that reinforces that connection is somehow special.

I feel I'm not being terribly articulate or helpful here, so let me try something else. If you are a handgun shooter in North America, to be able to shoot a Colt, particularly an old single action army (a "Peacemaker"), provides a connection to the opening up of the West that you won't get with any other gun (well, maybe a Winchester 94). But those guns wouldn't resonate in Africa.

Rigby does.

hank think you did a pretty good job ....as for the original question i will come back to this after i have finished at the bar, as it requires some thought and not a jovial bit of banter, as i got my first rigby in 1989 and know paul roberts well and marc newton from when he started working for paul .

 

[gordon-kruger]

Was that 1989 rifle a UK or US production Mike ? I know that John Rigby had a bit tough time to get back as a respected English exclusive trademark again after the years in USA. Today's Rigby is probably as good as a custom made Original Mauser rifle but the name Rigby for sure lifting up the nostalgic name.. and the price a bit, nothing wrong with this but for me it's a new company that Blaser as financier and owner with success connecting to the old time in Africa and India when Rigby was Rigby...

They lost them Royal warrants of appointment when moving over the Atlantic, and up to date that quality insurance have not been offered back again..

It's somehow a "Gucci" syndrome and the name Rigby is therefore selling.

Regarding bolt action rifles with a history, I would certainly say that H&H is falling out because of unrealistic price settings... So my favorite when it's come to British bolt actions with a unbroken history from 1812 and a intact Royal warranty, so also a very interesting historical brand is without doubt Westley Richards.

W-R have everything that a Rigby have plus a couple extra details for the same money.

Furthermore they like to think the bolt action rifle is the start of the journey with a client, a journey that will hopefully be a long one...

 

[Hank2211]

I think you're being a bit harsh on Rigby Gordon-Kruger. I would agree that for a while - during the US and the joint US?London years Rigby might have been selling a name (the "Gucci" syndrome you refer to), but I'd suggest that today, Marc Newton and his team of English gunsmiths are committed to creating great English guns. The money is certainly Blaser, but the actions are Mauser, as they were in the old days, and the assembly and wood are definitely English. I'll let you know how the new ones do after next month!

 

[gizmo]

Well said Gordon. I still would like to own a Rigby one day just for the nostalgia purpose but I agree with you.

 

[spike.t]

I think you're being a bit harsh on Rigby Gordon-Kruger. I would agree that for a while - during the US and the joint US?London years Rigby might have been selling a name (the "Gucci" syndrome you refer to), but I'd suggest that today, Marc Newton and his team of English gunsmiths are committed to creating great English guns. The money is certainly Blaser, but the actions are Mauser, as they were in the old days, and the assembly and wood are definitely English. I'll let you know how the new ones do after next month!

yup hank agree and now for some reason have lost interest in this thread , but in the usa/london time just prior to blaser buying them paul was making the rifles so they were very good, there are some photos of one that i posted on maybe big bore addiction...............the usa made ones well.... sorry as i know some on here have them so please dont take offense, but after looking at some at sci they arent rigbys as far as i am concerned .

 

[spike.t]

Was that 1989 rifle a UK or US production Mike ?

gordon i think it was about 1997 when the name was sold so you cant have read whatever you have been googling correctly.....

my favorite when it's come to British bolt actions with a unbroken history from 1812 and a intact Royal warranty, so also a very interesting historical brand is without doubt Westley Richards.

are you sure ? i could be wrong but i dont think WR have a warrant........

Well said Gordon. I still would like to own a Rigby one day just for the nostalgia purpose but I agree with you.

gizmo just out of interest for which reasons do you agree?

wont let me add anymore

 

[gizmo]

gordon i think it was about 1997 when the name was sold so you cant have read whatever you have been googling correctly.....




are you sure ? i could be wrong but i dont think WR have a warrant........



gizmo just out of interest for which reasons do you agree?

wont let me add anymore

Basically what I'm gathering is that with H&H and Rigby you are paying a "cool tax" and that prices are inflated as result of the name. Verny carrion, I appologize if spelled improperly, makes every bit as beautiful and well built rifles at half the price ish. Same with merkel and a few others. No they aren't British but are fine European arms.

 

[spike.t]

Basically what I'm gathering is that with H&H and Rigby you are paying a "cool tax" and that prices are inflated as result of the name. Verny carrion, I appologize if spelled improperly, makes every bit as beautiful and well built rifles at half the price ish. Same with merkel and a few others. No they aren't British but are fine European arms.

ok but you have never checked the prices ...a holland and holland bolt action are prices from £29,500.00 before you add anything http://hollandandholland.com/gun-room/bolt-action-magazine-rifle/ they make beautiful rifles and i know some of the people there who are great.

rigbys have rentered the market with a rifle that for the price i dont think can be beaten....i have had them in my hands and some of the wood on what is their basic rifle is outstanding

from £7,787.00 or $13,558.00 http://www.johnrigbyandco.com/the-big-game.html

moving on to the doubles verney-carron build lovely rifles and i have been tempted and will be tempted by their round action model. merkel make a great working double , and there are so many others in europe turning out everything from nice to amazingly out of this world that it is mind boggling, but when you look and hold a lot of them they just dont have the feel and the balance of a fine english double rifle....remember i said not all before i have jaco jumping on me for denigrating his beloved german o/u .470

 

[Hank2211]

yup hank agree and now for some reason have lost interest in this thread , but in the usa/london time just prior to blaser buying them paul was making the rifles so they were very good, there are some photos of one that i posted on maybe big bore addiction...............the usa made ones well.... sorry as i know some on here have them so please dont take offense, but after looking at some at sci they arent rigbys as far as i am concerned .

No offence taken. I saw them at SCI as well and was quite taken with them. That's what makes a market.

 

[Hank2211]

rigbys have rentered the market with a rifle that for the price i dont think can be beaten....i have had them in my hands and some of the wood on what is their basic rifle is outstanding

from £7,787.00 or $13,558.00 http://www.johnrigbyandco.com/the-big-game.html

moving on to the doubles verney-carron build lovely rifles and i have been tempted and will be tempted by their round action model. merkel make a great working double , and there are so many others in europe turning out everything from nice to amazingly out of this world that it is mind boggling, but when you look and hold a lot of them they just dont have the feel and the balance of a fine english double rifle....remember i said not all before i have jaco jumping on me for denigrating his beloved german o/u .470

There is something about a well made English rifle that I don't believe European guns can match. I know I opening myself up here, but you hit the nail on the head Spike. Balance. And pointability. I have a local Gunsmith making me a new rifle. He is German, and makes "english" type rifles.

 

[spike.t]

No offence taken. I saw them at SCI as well and was quite taken with them. That's what makes a market.

yup but you have a very nice one now

 

[Hank2211]

yup but you have a very nice one now

Yes I do. But it's a secret.

 

[gizmo]

ok but you have never checked the prices ...a holland and holland bolt action are prices from £29,500.00 before you add anything http://hollandandholland.com/gun-room/bolt-action-magazine-rifle/ they make beautiful rifles and i know some of the people there who are great.

rigbys have rentered the market with a rifle that for the price i dont think can be beaten....i have had them in my hands and some of the wood on what is their basic rifle is outstanding

from £7,787.00 or $13,558.00 http://www.johnrigbyandco.com/the-big-game.html

moving on to the doubles verney-carron build lovely rifles and i have been tempted and will be tempted by their round action model. merkel make a great working double , and there are so many others in europe turning out everything from nice to amazingly out of this world that it is mind boggling, but when you look and hold a lot of them they just dont have the feel and the balance of a fine english double rifle....remember i said not all before i have jaco jumping on me for denigrating his beloved german o/u .470

Oh I don't doubt that they aren't amazing rifles but 30000 essentialy and 13000 aren't affordable rifles. I've seen Vc bolts new for 7000 and Sabatti doubles for the same. Are they as nice as a H&H or Rigby, no not even close. Are they still nice and reliable. Absolutely. Don't get me wrong if I could afford a fine English gun I would have one. I'm just saying it took me dang near 20 years to save my pennies to go to Africa this summer and if given the choice I would go to Africa with a couple thousand dollar rifle as opposed to stay at home with a 30000 dollar rifle and wish I could take it to Africa. I'm not trying to take anything away from the English guns but one can hardly say a 30k rifle is an affordable entry rifle. At least I cant. Plus there's no way I could ever take something like that and use it for fear of a scratch or a ding considering it would take me about another 20 years to save for one. It's a matter of perspective I guess.

 

[gizmo]

For what it's worth my #1 dream gun is a H&H double and my #2 is a Rigby. I highly doubt I will ever be able to afford either but one can always dream right. In the mean time I'll save my pennies and try to make as many trips to Afica as I possibly can.

 

[gordon-kruger]

To use a expensive rifle in the bush as you say Gizmo can be a little emotional with fear of scratches etc.. After each season I "restore" a couple of my rifle stocks, steam iron out some press marks and finally with a fine wet sandpaper smoothing everything down. A new oil finish and they are as new again. I never let any one of the black workers carry my rifles or holding them, special during bumpy transport on a bakkie etc.. this is when you receive the scratches and damages to the metal parts... they will never understand the real difference in value from a Holland & Holland to a home made shooting stock... its simply a rifle for them so no respect when it's comes to be careful at all.

Mike, I think that Westley Richards still have them 5 or 6 Royal warranties, as long they are in the same company and not moving outside UK or start to change them production or quality it should still be there... if they are not limited in time, anyhow they receive also a Royal warrant from Shah of Persia and I think that he had allot of other think on his mind than to recalling the warranty to W-R when he fled the country..... therefore it should be intact even today, this warranties is a "cool tax" that comes with a price I guess..

 

[TokkieM]

I like the older Rigby rifles,classic and we'll made. Have not held the new one yet, but from what I have seen they too seem to be a quality piece of workmanship. I however don't find them more appealing than a Original Sporting Oberndorff Mauser.
Won't be owning a new Rigby double either at the price they start at, so I guess I am stuck with the Mausers and Krieghoff The Germans don't build them as pretty, but they kill just as well

 

[Ado]

Two things:
1. History
2. Unable to afford

Ado