If you want to shoot dangerous game..

[Green Chile]

Stalking in bush, 5 meters visibility, is something I really do not like.

Been there and done that for sure…it’s pretty serious at that point and the human is at a serious disadvantage.

 

[DaddyFlip]

• hunt dangerous game, let it be dangerous
• as close range as possible
• a bolt rifle or a double
• the taste of danger

I would say let the game be dangerous, not the hunt. As others have noted, "as possible" may have many variables and qualifiers that limits the choice of distance. A single might heighten the danger even further, or allow the sensation of danger to be felt at a greater distance. If one can taste the danger, then that is pretty close. The senses, in order of distance, might be: taste < touch < smell < see < hear. For some hunters, maybe seeing the danger is close enough. I've seen videos of hunters shooting from sticks at what might be considered non-dangerous distances and yet they are still flustered enough to be shaking pre- and post-shot and have to be reminded to "reload" and "safety on". Danger might depend on the hunt and the hunter.

I was thinking there are three types of hunting:

1. cull hunting (hogs rooting up farmland, coyotes stealing chickens, nuisance animals endangering people, etc.)
2. sustenance hunting (I'm hungry and need something to eat; I like venison, the freezer is empty, etc.)
3. trophy hunting (I want that hide/hair/horn on my wall, etc.)

The DG hunting we're discussing primarily falls under #3 with PG and all other big game. In many cases, it's the collection of the trophy that matters more than the proximity of the kill. Even so, there are many experiences to be had in the field other than putting oneself in harm's way. It could be that a novice hunter gets the full experience at 100 yards while the seasoned hunter with several kills may have gained the experience, earned the right, and have the desire to close the distance.

Novice, seasoned, or professional hunter- cull, sustenance or trophy hunting- a game animal deserves is to be hunted fairly and killed cleanly... at any distance.

 

[Aaron N]

Can we have a civil discussion on this topic..?

To my mind, if you want to hunt dangerous game, let it be dangerous, otherwise you may as well just shoot deer. DG is to be shot at as close range as possible, either with a bolt rifle or a double..

A buffalo is not dangerous when you shoot him at 80 yards with a .375H&H from sticks.. I mean..if you hunt DG, isnt the taste of danger a part of the experience..?

So Mark Sullivan distances only?

 

[375Fox]

If someone only defines their DG hunt by the final shot they need to reevaluate their priorities. I don’t hunt DG because I want it to be dangerous. I hunt DG game because it gives me the full experience from an area. It shouldn’t matter if the shot you take is 5 yards or 100 yards. You should have bumped into elephant, buffalo, maybe lion at close range already. You saw things you’d only see while tracking dangerous game. I’ve hunted buffalo in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Cameroon, and Tanzania. I’ve hunted elephant in Zimbabwe. Along with some hippo and a croc. I’ve never defined a hunt by the distance I’ve taken a shot. It’s been about the overall experience.

 

[Rafiki]

Each to their own I guess. Personally I do not use a scoped rifle or sticks, and use a Ruger #1 .500 Sharps. That remained true until about a year ago when we went on buffalo "meat hunt" off license. That one was across a river; got it with a 375 H&H at 104 yards with express sights off sticks. I found it a bit unsatisfying for me but the locals got meat which was very satisfying.

 

[PARA45]

I've shot a Lioness, a cow and bull Buffalo, and I listen to my PH. Bull was at 62 yds and we couldn't get any closer, thick bush and on the side of hill.

 

[DLSJR]

I think that the distance the first shot is taken from is less important than how the overall hunt is conducted. Getting in close to dangerous game is a big part of my enjoyment, whether the shot is ultimately fired close or farther away. Thinking back on first shot distances on all dangerous game my shots have ranged from a few feet to about 100 yards, with most first shots being from 15-50 yards or so, regardless of which species we were hunting. But those shots were just a portion of the overall experience on most dangerous game hunts. Some of my greatest dangerous game memories are encounters where no shot was fired.

I’ll never forget my first buffalo, where we were crawling on hands & knees behind 2 big bulls and one turned and fed across our front, stopping just 13 yards in front of us, turning its head to look directly at me but no shot due to a large mopane covering where I had to shoot. I had to wait for him to run to put a 500 grain soft point through his heart, but what I’ll never forget is being at eye to eye level with that buffalo, staring at each other before he broke and ran.

I’ll never forget tracking a lion on foot in Botswana, going from open grassy areas to dense palm jungles, following the lions as they traveled. At each dense patch, I’d remove the scope from my .416 and shove it in my pocket as any encounter was going to be at 10-20 yards. It was intense! In the end we caught up to them out in the open and my shot was around 80-90 yards across short grass. But the sweat soaked memories were made along the track where no shots were fired.

Just this past May I shot a buffalo on Hammond at around 30-35 yards. Not too close but not too far; but what made the experience so great was that we’d snuck right into the herd and actually had buffalo on 3 sides with the one I shot coming from behind us and passing on the right. We had times over the last couple days where we were 10-15 yards from buffalo in thick cover and never fired a shot; to me that’s a big component of what makes buffalo hunting fun. And about 5 minutes before I shot that buffalo, I was only 2-3 feet from some extremely dangerous non-game that we stopped to photograph with our iPhones… a Vine Snake! We almost walked under it as he was laying along a branch we were about to pass under. We stepped back, whipped out our phones, took a couple pictures at arm’s length, then walked around the other side of that big bush. I remember that close encounter with the snake as much as the buffalo.

Following wounded buffalo is a whole experience unto itself and is worthy of its own thread. I’ve followed wounded bulls several times and we’ve found them each time except once; but the one we never recovered gave us memories we’ll never forget. After losing the bull despite following it for hours and miles one evening and the next day, Alan Vincent summed up the intensity of the experience perfectly during dinner when he said “Each time we came to one of those thickets, I was sure that buffalo was going to stand up in front of one of us…. At 10 yards! “. I’ll remember that forever.

You don’t get those feelings while hunting plains game.

To me, dangerous game hunting is about the entire experience, the targeted and non-targeted game, the near & far encounters and the actual first shot is but one piece of a rather large puzzle.

 

[Datchew]

I guess I just don't spend that much time thinking about it much less telling others how to do so.
Especially during fall hunting season.
Not poking fun at the OP, just scratching my head.

Have fun, be careful, be ethical, don't be "that guy."

But I bow hunt and the bow hunters can go all snobby on the rifle hunters (and they do.)
And the spear hunters can... Well, you get the idea.

Now using your fists, that's hunting.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

It’s about the experience and circumstance, not the actual distance/range of the shot…

 

[farmer_john]

Can we have a civil discussion on this topic..?

To my mind, if you want to hunt dangerous game, let it be dangerous, otherwise you may as well just shoot deer. DG is to be shot at as close range as possible, either with a bolt rifle or a double..

A buffalo is not dangerous when you shoot him at 80 yards with a .375H&H from sticks.. I mean..if you hunt DG, isnt the taste of danger a part of the experience..?

If you want danger. Why not go on a bolshevik safari? That would put you on equal footing them shooting at you and you them. Plenty of wars to go around. If thats how you feel about things.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Can we have a civil discussion on this topic..?

To my mind, if you want to hunt dangerous game, let it be dangerous, otherwise you may as well just shoot deer. DG is to be shot at as close range as possible, either with a bolt rifle or a double..
.......

I'm not so sure about the "danger" premise being the big draw. In my view the challenge of the stalk is the draw no matter what critter you are after.

I was taught to stalk game and get as close as you could, no matter what the beast. "Matching your whits"

I found that bow hunting Cape Buffalo was certainly exhilarating. However, it is not for everyone. I won't ever knock a rifle hunter for using a modern firearm, whatever the design, to take game from a reasonable distance that they feel is acceptable/ethical.

I hope you all hunt in a manner you find enjoyable.

 

[farmer_john]

While not the big 5. Going after a wild boar with a spear is a pretty sporty endevor.

 

[bimbo]

I have never hunted DG. I hope to maybe hunt buffalo in the future and I think maybe once the kids are grown up a tusk less elephant could be within my grasp.

That being said I Don’t think we should be telling anyone how they have to hunt. If a hunter is happy and satisfied in making a well placed shot resulting in a dead buffalo at 80 yards then that is that hunters hunt and none of our business.

I like every elephant hunting....tuskless ,cow,trophy bull ,but tuskless is surely, unwounded ,the most dangerous animal which u can hunt...next it cropping P.A.C elephant hunt when allowed in the night.

 

[bimbo]

I have shot elephant at 40 yds while is running off ,bear on the bait a 40 mt,my father same distance for leopard.Lion on tracks at 30 yds in the high grass.Buffalo at 10 yds... I have been between a heard of elephant at not over 15 yds of each one.With Ian Gibson, first day of my first safari,we have arrived so close to the buffalo heard which Ian have launched a fist of dust in its face to turn it off!!!I did can not shot ,that time,to this 42/43 inches because solid could be a problem due a possible shot trough .
Ian for me ,was just a legend in 1989.He did can shot straight and fast by his 458 as me by a semiauto 22 LR!!

 

[bimbo]

Distance can do the difference vs PG...trophy size not.Rowland ward said"it s not important trophy size but as u will take it

 

[bimbo]

You have some valid points..but thinking about it the moments to remember and somewhat cherish are those that occured when doing these things and danger called.. I have had some hairy moments hunting DG, during scuba diving (inside wrecks, abrupt meetings with congers and moray eels, etc.) and in military service..

Stalking buffalo in dense bush..suddenly a muffeled whoof when another lone dagga boy brake out 15 meters behind you..

I can know u about DG contact at closer...same story about diving.I has been a commercial diver

 

[Pondoro]

I can know u about DG contact at closer...same story about diving.I has been a commercial diver

I hear you..

 

[Hunting Hitman]

Can we have a civil discussion on this topic..?

To my mind, if you want to hunt dangerous game, let it be dangerous, otherwise you may as well just shoot deer. DG is to be shot at as close range as possible, either with a bolt rifle or a double..

A buffalo is not dangerous when you shoot him at 80 yards with a .375H&H from sticks.. I mean..if you hunt DG, isnt the taste of danger a part of the experience..?

I agree. First shot needs to be inside 50 yards. I work hard at getting close to the animal to maximize my ability to dispatch them quickly.

HH

 

[uplander01]

I am very much in the camp of @grand veneur . I have hunted cape buffalo on the African continent for exactly the same reasons that I hunted suni or eland - or for that matter, the same reasons I have hunted roe deer, ibex, and yes, whitetail in Europe and North America. I do it to experience the region, the people, the hunt itself not as some thrill seeking event or some sort of affirmation of manhood. I have had that sort of experience elsewhere in life.

@Betterinthebush also makes a very valid point. Terrain dictates much with respect to the first shot at dangerous game animal. Following a lone bull in the jess is very different from approaching a herd of 200 in the Zambezi Delta. I have done both. One of those shots was as close as twenty-five yards and another at seventy. Each of those, and any others I have taken, represented the ideal range in those conditions to best place the initial shot on a buffalo. Which brings us to the real crux of the issue.

I would agree that getting a client close is important to most PHs. But that is not to test his or the client's courage, but rather it is because most of his clients are pretty terrible shots, particularly if they are carrying an open sighted double rifle. I have several times noted my old friend and PH Boet's observation that the only thing in Africa that truly scared him was having a client show up with his brand new double rifle for buffalo or elephant.

Additionally, however civil we are trying to be, I am truly and thoroughly sick of the "proper rifle that starts with a 4 or 5" nonsense. I do not care with what number the size of the chambering begins, a one lunged or gut shot bull is a very dangerous thing indeed. In that case, if we are going to be truthful as well as civil, it will be the PH or tracker who will most likely pay the price of that incompetence - not the client who they will do all in their power to protect.

In short, the decision to pull the trigger and shoot a buffalo is an act of enormous responsibility. Not because one's chest is puffed out over one's self-perceived courage, but because if anything goes wrong with that first shot, we the client may bear the responsibility for the death or injury of someone else. That is the reality and seriousness of dangerous game hunting - not the thrill. If you can best make that shot with a .500 that shoots 3-inch groups at fifty yards from a rest, then great. If you can best do it with a scoped .375 then better yet. I own a .404, 500/416, .470. and .450. I shoot them all very well. But, for a first shot at any range, I personally have not been able to improve on the .375.

While I agree with much of what you say sir, when it comes to your comment on caliber choice, I must respectfully disagree. Bell shot 100’s if not a 1000 elephants with a 275. If caliber choice doesn’t matter on dg, why have any caliber restrictions. I took a bit of a risky shot on buff once with a 500 jeffery. 90 yards, angled facing us, express sights. Crushed a shoulder and major damage to one lung. It spun him around and he stood there facing away from us for about 4 or 5 seconds, I believe he was trying to regain his sense of what just happened after being smacked with well over 5000 ft lbs of energy. I don’t believe a 375 would have had near that effect, he would have been gone and we would have had a tracking scenario exactly as you describe. That 4-5 seconds gave me plenty of time to re-acquire the sights and put one from back to front that dropped him like a bag of sand. So, IMO, with a client that is a capable shooter, maybe a shooter that can shoot comparably with a 375 or 500 jeffery, bigger is better, more tissue damage, more bones broken, bigger blood hole. All that being said, I am a 100 percent believer in the 375, and have used one on similar hunts. my experiences have been successful with both scenarios, I just feel like it has more to do with the shooter’s ability, fact is most guys can’t shoot big guns consistently.

I would also add I don’t think there is any place for thrill seeking or anyone chest puffing that is a paying client traveling to Africa or anywhere else for hunting. These trips are vacations for most of us, enjoyable from start to finish for all the reasons you mention. There are plenty of activities that a guy can do that will destroy only yourself if things go wrong. Hunting dg is serious business, and I personally view it as the task at hand and doing everything in my power to get the job done cleanly, caliber choice, fitness level, training with the rifle.

 

[bimbo]

So...the rule is always the same one...
The only weapon to use ,for DG especially,will be a legal/maximum caliber which a client/hunter and a PH too can handle and shoot straight with a very good premium bullet.The other thing are only words to kill time.