If you want to shoot dangerous game..

[Pondoro]

Can we have a civil discussion on this topic..?

To my mind, if you want to hunt dangerous game, let it be dangerous, otherwise you may as well just shoot deer. DG is to be shot at as close range as possible, either with a bolt rifle or a double..

A buffalo is not dangerous when you shoot him at 80 yards with a .375H&H from sticks.. I mean..if you hunt DG, isnt the taste of danger a part of the experience..?

 

[Betterinthebush]

How close am I supposed to be to a brown/grizz bear in Iliamna tundra before it’s considered that I’m just shooting deer?

Terrain has a lot to do with how close is as close as one can get.

 

[grand veneur]

I don't hunt DG because of the danger, but because it interests me as hunter. I am aware of the inherent risks, but that's not why I do it. All the dangerous activities I have undertaken in my life were driven by interest in the subject itself, not by a thirst for thrills. I talk about mountaineering, parachute jumping and scuba diving, in civilian and military contexts, aerobatics flying and so on, all would conducted with a high degree of safety. I don't belong to a generation of people who spend all their time in front of computers and then suddenly looks for a thrill. If DG hunting is supposed to serve that purpose for some, then we are falling very low.

 

[uplander01]

I have a tendency to agree,…dg hunting when conducted properly with a good ph and tracker on foot using all of your physical ability to get close,…is how it should be done. Add to those factors a proper rifle that starts with 4 or 5 and you have yourself a good time. For myself, I insist on open sights,…but I understand as we age a guys eyes aren’t what they used to be, so a low powered scope,….and the hunting gods forgive me, even a red dot if you really have eyesight is really poor.

I would also add that most dangerous game hunting isn’t really dangerous until after the trigger gets pulled, there are exceptions of course like elephant hunting around herds or tracking down a know ill tempered animal.

 

[SStomcat]

Can we have a civil discussion on this topic..?

To my mind, if you want to hunt dangerous game, let it be dangerous, otherwise you may as well just shoot deer. DG is to be shot at as close range as possible, either with a bolt rifle or a double..

A buffalo is not dangerous when you shoot him at 80 yards with a .375H&H from sticks.. I mean..if you hunt DG, isnt the taste of danger a part of the experience..?

I agree 100%. When it comes to dangerous game like buffalo, elephant, or rhino, the idea has always been that encounters happen close—often within 30 yards or less. That was the traditional belief among many old-school hunters who relied on experience, nerve, and an intimate understanding of the animals they pursued.

My grandfather often spoke about the Royal Bengal tiger, and his stories still stay with me. According to him, hunting a tiger at extremely close range was a test unlike any other. Their combination of ferocity, speed, and unnerving intelligence meant you couldn’t allow them to close the distance. A tiger could cover 20–30 feet in a single effortless leap, and that margin of error was the difference between a clean encounter and catastrophe.

Times have changed, of course, and these stories belong to another era—but the respect for the animals, and for the men who faced such moments, remains timeless.

 

[Elkeater]

I have never hunted DG. I hope to maybe hunt buffalo in the future and I think maybe once the kids are grown up a tusk less elephant could be within my grasp.

That being said I Don’t think we should be telling anyone how they have to hunt. If a hunter is happy and satisfied in making a well placed shot resulting in a dead buffalo at 80 yards then that is that hunters hunt and none of our business.

 

[Wiley64]

Can we have a civil discussion on this topic..?

To my mind, if you want to hunt dangerous game, let it be dangerous, otherwise you may as well just shoot deer. DG is to be shot at as close range as possible, either with a bolt rifle or a double..

A buffalo is not dangerous when you shoot him at 80 yards with a .375H&H from sticks.. I mean..if you hunt DG, isnt the taste of danger a part of the experience..?

This is an odd take. Buff are dangerous, especially wounded buff. The added pressure of making that first shot perfect is real at 80 yards or 30 yards. Walking up to a herd of Black Death, even within 80 yards, is not something most people are capable of. It’s still exciting, sporting, and ethical at 80-100 yards.

 

[Altitude sickness]

It’s a personal decision what that person feels comfortable with. And what they consider dangerous. Killing a Lion with a native spear or a HP rifle.

If you screw up and then take up the trail with the “team”. (PH and Trackers) it’s definitely risky.

IMHO. Certain animals deserve to be properly killed. For example Shooting an elephant laying prone from 400 yards shooting from a ridge top is not my idea of a proper way to kill an elephant. They deserve more.

 

[SStomcat]

This is an odd take. Buff are dangerous, especially wounded buff. The added pressure of making that first shot perfect is real at 80 yards or 30 yards. Walking up to a herd of Black Death, even within 80 yards, is not something most people are capable of. It’s still exciting, sporting, and ethical at 80-100 yards.

There’s a world of difference between walking up to a wounded buffalo at 80 or 100 yards and dealing with a true Dugga boy that has turned the tables on you. Anyone who has spent time in thick cover knows exactly what I mean.
When you’re approaching a wounded animal, you control the pace, the angle, and the distance—at least to some extent. But when an old, solitary bull decides you are the problem and begins circling in the jess, it becomes an entirely different encounter. You’re no longer tracking; you’re being hunted in turn. You feel it long before you see anything: that oppressive quiet, the sense that he’s just out of sight, waiting for the single moment you slip.
The nerves, the thrill, the adrenaline—they’re on a completely different level. A dugga boy coming in like a freight train through the brush is something no amount of reading or storytelling can fully convey. It’s a test of composure under pressure that only those who’ve been there can truly appreciate.

 

[Pondoro]

I don't hunt DG because of the danger, but because it interests me as hunter. I am aware of the inherent risks, but that's not why I do it. All the dangerous activities I have undertaken in my life were driven by interest in the subject itself, not by a thirst for thrills. I talk about mountaineering, parachute jumping and scuba diving, in civilian and military contexts, aerobatics flying and so on, all would conducted with a high degree of safety. I don't belong to a generation of people who spend all their time in front of computers and then suddenly looks for a thrill. If DG hunting is supposed to serve that purpose for some, then we are falling very low.

You have some valid points..but thinking about it the moments to remember and somewhat cherish are those that occured when doing these things and danger called.. I have had some hairy moments hunting DG, during scuba diving (inside wrecks, abrupt meetings with congers and moray eels, etc.) and in military service..

Stalking buffalo in dense bush..suddenly a muffeled whoof when another lone dagga boy brake out 15 meters behind you..

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I know that you’re one of those gents whom I can give my pure unfiltered opinions to without being judged, @Pondoro

I can understand your philosophy and I do agree with it to some extent. But I personally have never hunted dangerous game with the intent of putting myself in danger. For me, it was simply because the act of hunting the game animal itself gave me enjoyment. Now, this doesn’t mean that I shy away from danger during a dangerous game hunt. It’s just that I don’t directly go looking for ways to get into a dangerous situation.

My philosophy is this:
“I’m going to hunt this game animal. If I have to put myself in a potentially dangerous situation, then I’ll do so gladly. But I won’t take any more risk than is necessary”.

Case in point:

I have hunted most of my African dangerous game (till now) with a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum, but this wasn’t due to me particularly loving the caliber more than say… a .505 Gibbs or our mutually coveted .600 Nitro Express. It was because, when I started hunting African dangerous game in 1974… factory loaded ammunition for only the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum and the .458 Winchester Magnum were being commercially manufactured at the time. Also most of my shots have been taken under 50 yards over iron sights.

I have hunted lions & leopards over bait. But I’ve also hunted lions via on-foot stalking and leopards over hounds. I’ve hunted hippopotamus in the water, but I’ve also hunted them on land in the sugarcane fields at night. I have been enjoying them all… but I can honestly tell you that leopard over hounds and hippopotamus in the sugarcane fields at night, are two of the most adrenaline pumping dangerous game hunts which Africa has to offer. I hear that hunting tuskless cow elephants in the jesse ranks just as high as the other two, but my only two African elephants (so far) have only been bull tuskers.

So my point of view is: Let the ones who hunt at close range over iron sights keep hunting thir way. And let the ones who want to “snipe” game from 100-300 yards with telescopic sights keep hunting their way. As for me, I’ll hunt in whichever way I feel the circumstances call for. Although I must confess that I personally do prefer hunting leopards over hounds INFINITELY MORE than leopards over bait. And hunting hippopotamus on land in the sugarcane fields at night INFINITELY MORE than hippopotamus in the water.

There are lines of course, which even I will never cross. For example, recently I read that somewhere in RSA… some outfitters were allowing their clients to shoot Cape buffalo from a helicopter. I would personally never do this, at all. If I was involved in a culling operation, then I totally understand. But in good conscience, I could never call it a “Hunt”.

Besides, what exactly IS “Dangerous Game” anyway ? A son of a close friend once went to hunt Sambar deer. He shot a stag and down it went. When he went closer towards it, it suddenly sprang up and kicked him in the chest with it’s hind legs and went some 200 yards before finally succumbing to it’s injuries. The kick was so hard that the young man’s heart stopped and he died. I have a local guide who once went to slaughter a dying muntjac deer which I had previously shot during a beat. The dying 35 LB muntjac stag bit him so severely in the hand that he required 17 stitches.

Any animal can be dangerous under the right (or wrong) circumstances.

 

[Green Chile]

For me, DG is a sensory experience. I look forward to getting close and hearing their stomach rumble....smelling them...knowing they are close but exactly where are they? Sorting that out in close proximity is what I enjoy the most. I don't feel the same when they are further out. Fifty meters is just the beginning. I don't judge someone for feeling differently but I do try to help them understand the majority of the experience is when you get close, not just when you see them at distance. When you get close, the senses are heightened and more respect is due them as you are in their zone of reacting to you vs observing you.

 

[Red Leg]

I am very much in the camp of @grand veneur . I have hunted cape buffalo on the African continent for exactly the same reasons that I hunted suni or eland - or for that matter, the same reasons I have hunted roe deer, ibex, and yes, whitetail in Europe and North America. I do it to experience the region, the people, the hunt itself not as some thrill seeking event or some sort of affirmation of manhood. I have had that sort of experience elsewhere in life.

@Betterinthebush also makes a very valid point. Terrain dictates much with respect to the first shot at dangerous game animal. Following a lone bull in the jess is very different from approaching a herd of 200 in the Zambezi Delta. I have done both. One of those shots was as close as twenty-five yards and another at seventy. Each of those, and any others I have taken, represented the ideal range in those conditions to best place the initial shot on a buffalo. Which brings us to the real crux of the issue.

I would agree that getting a client close is important to most PHs. But that is not to test his or the client's courage, but rather it is because most of his clients are pretty terrible shots, particularly if they are carrying an open sighted double rifle. I have several times noted my old friend and PH Boet's observation that the only thing in Africa that truly scared him was having a client show up with his brand new double rifle for buffalo or elephant.

Additionally, however civil we are trying to be, I am truly and thoroughly sick of the "proper rifle that starts with a 4 or 5" nonsense. I do not care with what number the size of the chambering begins, a one lunged or gut shot bull is a very dangerous thing indeed. In that case, if we are going to be truthful as well as civil, it will be the PH or tracker who will most likely pay the price of that incompetence - not the client who they will do all in their power to protect.

In short, the decision to pull the trigger and shoot a buffalo is an act of enormous responsibility. Not because one's chest is puffed out over one's self-perceived courage, but because if anything goes wrong with that first shot, we the client may bear the responsibility for the death or injury of someone else. That is the reality and seriousness of dangerous game hunting - not the thrill. If you can best make that shot with a .500 that shoots 3-inch groups at fifty yards from a rest, then great. If you can best do it with a scoped .375 then better yet. I own a .404, 500/416, .470. and .450. I shoot them all very well. But, for a first shot at any range, I personally have not been able to improve on the .375.

 

[Flipper Dude]

I’ll play devil’s advocate. I content it’s LESS dangerous overall to shoot buffalo at 25 yards than it is at 100. The chance of a good clean shot in the right spot is much greater. Making the follow up much less dangerous. I insist on getting close to Buffalo.

 

[revturbo9967]

I do exactly what my ph tells me to do, and if an 80 yard shot is what is on the table, and he throws me on the sticks, I take the shot. If we need to get closer, then we get closer. But to get closer only because you want a thrill of killing a buffalo with a leatherman tool, you’re looking for an ego boost.

 

[uplander01]

I’ll play devil’s advocate. I content it’s LESS dangerous overall to shoot buffalo at 25 yards than it is at 100. The chance of a good clean shot in the right spot is much greater. Making the follow up much less dangerous. I insist on getting close to Buffalo.

I agree with this for the most part,.....however, a guy that was doing some work on a rifle for me sent me a video of one of his clients on a buff hunt,...shot was 25 yards. It was decent shot placement, but that buff turned and came right for them at full speed. It was amazing how fast that bull covered 25 yards. If the pH wouldn't have had a double, it would've gone very badly for them.

 

[BryceM]

Well, I agree with the concept. Getting in close to buffalo and elephant is intense!!!

That said, I enjoy being able to hunt how I want, and I intend to grant others the same privilege, within the law and sound conservation principles.

 

[SStomcat]

I don't hunt DG because of the danger, but because it interests me as hunter. I am aware of the inherent risks, but that's not why I do it. All the dangerous activities I have undertaken in my life were driven by interest in the subject itself, not by a thirst for thrills. I talk about mountaineering, parachute jumping and scuba diving, in civilian and military contexts, aerobatics flying and so on, all would conducted with a high degree of safety. I don't belong to a generation of people who spend all their time in front of computers and then suddenly looks for a thrill. If DG hunting is supposed to serve that purpose for some, then we are falling very low.

I respect your views, and to be honest, I think most of us can agree or disagree on one point: there has to be some level of thrill to spark genuine interest. Without that element of challenge or intensity, I’m not sure how anything can truly capture a person’s passion. It’s that hint of uncertainty — the edge, the excitement — that keeps the flame alive. IMHO of course.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I shot my first buffalo at 100 meters in the heart. We had already experienced them very close in the thick stuff ... VERY close. But couldn't get a shot at the shooter. Then caught them crossing a long opening. They stopped and there she was. Had to be a good shot because another cow was almost touching her left side and calf to her right (not hers). The sticks went up but I couldn't steady in the wind and said no. PH leaned over and held my right elbow. That works. Boom! She falls seconds later, buffalo herd huddles around her, then the big bull comes for us with herd in tow. Death bellow takes them back to the cow. Then here he comes again. Another death bellow turns them back. This time she's dead. And here he comes again! This time the herd wouldn't follow so he turns back. I'm very glad the range was a hundred meters or that very expensive breeding bull probably would have been taken out. Yes, it was a culling at 100 meters but still plenty exciting. Anyway I was ready to move on to kudu hunting. Later I asked my PH about taking a 100 meter shot. He said the lodge prescribed limit is 70 meters "But we know you can shoot" (lodge owner was along for the hunt). It was a unique experience. Thrill factor was there albeit unexpected.

Second buffalo shot on the run at sixty yards. A difficult shot and I made it work. I apologized afterwards for breaking the rules. "You are the only client I would let do that." And he did let me. When I came off the sticks he didn't say don't take the shot (but he did the day before when I was scoping a bull's butt as it ran off hoping it would stop and turn). Oh ... and when we first tried to ambush them in the thick stuff a calf and cow rhino walked into us at 35 yards. Yeah, that was exciting enough.

I talked about this in the "Manners" thread. I don't go hunting to be bound by rules. Actually it's the opposite. It's the freedom away from rules that draws me afield. Of course there always are some limitations (e g. PH reqirement when hunting Africa). I am glad my PH/outfitter gave me some room to maneuver. We made it work.

 

[mark-hunter]

A buffalo is not dangerous when you shoot him at 80 yards with a .375H&H from sticks.. I mean..if you hunt DG, isnt the taste of danger a part of the experience..?

Shoot him poorly at 100 meters, and have real DG experience.

I dont mind shooting at 100 meters. (which actually I did)

Stalking in bush, 5 meters visibility, is something I really do not like.