Hunting with black rifles in Africa

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by 308W, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. Dewald

    Dewald AH Veteran

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    As a hunting client/ trophy hunter none. For a very select set of circumstances they work. I’ve seen a suppressed .300 Blackout work wonders on a sounder of hogs.

    There are stills heeps of bolters, Farquharsons, doubles, small bore shotguns, single action revolvers, goodness - the list doesn’t stop... that I’ll buy before i get a semi auto
     
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  2. WAB

    WAB AH Elite

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    The DPMS and AR-10 platforms fall in the Black gun categories. A friend of mine is the author of “Precision Rifle
    Blog”. He is also a bolt gun guy and last year cleaned a course in TX to 2400, so he knows what he is doing. A couple of years back he tested three commercial 6.5 Creedmore chambered DPMS rifles, I believe at 1000. The results were stunning. Nothing against the BAR, but these rifles should not be taken lightly. My DPMS is chambered in 7.62. It shoots 1 hole 5 shot groups at 100. I have only shot it out to 600, but it shoots sub moa at that range. I doubt that it can hold that as it goes sub-sonic. I am amazed at the accuracy of these platforms.
     
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  3. 308W

    308W AH Senior Member

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    Hi WAB, is your DPMS in 308W?
    A group sub MOA at 600 yards means great accuracy for a semiauto.
    Do you use it for hunting too?
     

  4. WAB

    WAB AH Elite

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    It is in .308. It is a CMT upper/lower assembly with a black hole polygonally rifled barrel and chip McCormick match trigger. I bought for use on hogs with a thermal at night. I have really transitioned to the 6.5 Grendel so the honest answer is that it is now a safe queen. As to hunting (hogs are vermin control), I exclusively use bolts and single shots.
     
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  5. One Day...

    One Day... GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Problem solved LOL

    pink ar.JPG
     
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  6. Bhfs300

    Bhfs300 AH Fanatic

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    I guess I didn’t know they were called Black Rifles I thought they were called AR’s?
    I hunt with a Ruger #1 in 300 WM or a Ruger in 375 Ruger or maybe I shoot praire dogs with my Ruger in 204 Ruger.
    I think it is sad to see these hunting shows on the hunting channels and they have a clip on their Black Rifle that could put out ten shots if they miss the first one?
    Sorry
     

  7. sierraone

    sierraone AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Before they became so popular during recent years they were known as ugly black rifles for the few that gun shops had in stock. Most hunters/shooters didn't won't them. That was in the 80s. Since the 90s it seems most everybody that shoots has or wants one or more. Why they are so popular completely eludes me.
     
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  8. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

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    i used to do a lot of feral goat control.
    a typical situation involved taking 3000 rounds and coming home with 7.
    used an fn slr, a heckler and koch, and a sig, all 308 semi auto mil style in 308.
    we carried 4x 20 shot mags, plus another in the gun.
    have since discovered that a bolt action is just as good at getting tallies, and far more efficient in use of ammo.
    shooting from helicopters might suit the mil semiauto more, as reloading can be difficult.
    yes there are now some fantastically accurate mil semiautos out there now, with good triggers too.
    but if you spend the same on a bolt gun it will be even more accurate.
    last century there were a higher percentage of hunters that understood hunting than today.
    none of those guys favour the mil style guns.
    the marketing machine has discovered the lack of real knowledge of hunting, and have gone mad.
    it has become a feeding franzy, self feeding in fact.
    bruce.
     
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  9. 308W

    308W AH Senior Member

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    Not enymore black but pink rifles :LOL:
     

  10. 308W

    308W AH Senior Member

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    Even AK and others is called "black rifle" not only AR.
     

  11. 308W

    308W AH Senior Member

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    I agree with you, they were and they are very ugly if you look at them from a classic idea of fine rifle.
    From the same point of view we can look at syntetic stock rifles, try to compare them with a nice valnut stock.

    I think Black rifles becomes popular because:
    - their so efficent semiauto system;
    - low prices (in USA you can have for less then $ 400)
    - some models can be very accurate, often more then hunting bolt action;
    - many models are available in different colours and not only black;
    - huge after market, even from China (search on chinese e-commerce like Alibaba or "AR 15 made in China" on Google and see)
    etc. etc.

    Then, the world is changing... and values too.
     

  12. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

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    i pity any army that tries to invade USA.
    all the black rifles there and stockpiled ammo would make it hard for them to keep boots on the ground.
    bruce.
     

  13. 308W

    308W AH Senior Member

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    Hi Bruce, my impression is now the black rifle is used more for sport then for hunting, but... the evolution is underway.

    Personally I never consider these guns until last year when I searched a 223 semiauto.
    I found only two classic models: Merkel SR1 and Ruger mini 14, the SR1 has got a twist barrel 1:12" and I needed 1:9" or 1:8", the Mini 14 is an hybrid and I don't like.

    Then I found hundreds models of black rifles in 223R, from € 800 to 4.000 in Italy, some of them capable of sub 1/2 MOA at 300 meters.
    I discovered even some young Italian companies, never heard before, specialized in custom models black rifle, it means there is a market growing up quickly.
     

  14. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I guess I wore one to work too many years to really want anything to do with one while hunting. And the only thing I hate more than being next to a muzzel brake :whistle: at a public range is a couple of “wannabes” with their tricked our AR’s or AK’s. And you are, I believe, correct. The ability to accessorize these things make them extremely popular - sort of the modern day 1911.

    However, to make my hypocracy complete, I own two - one in .308 and one in .223. The .308 is not much lighter than a squad automatic weapon so it is hardly even an ideal post zombi apocalypse choice - though with flank security, I could create a pretty dangerous 600 meter beaten zone. The other was created as a .223 “varmit” rifle. But I somehow always seem to grab my Hornet or Sako Vixen. I have yet to encounter the attacking coyote pack requiring at 10-rd magazine, much less a 30.

    And that “beaten zone” wouldn’t be much of a threat to regular troops. The amount of fire power and supporting kinetic fires a modern infantry platoon can bring to bear is staggering.
     
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  15. Tom Hawk

    Tom Hawk AH Enthusiast

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    My advice: check the laws, not just destination, but of transit countries. ask outfitter
    Bring a semi auto with wood furnishing, such as a BAR.
     
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  16. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

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    in europe the bar is available in 9,3x62.
    could be a good choice for africa.
    bruce.
     
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  17. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Fanatic

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    I would not judge someone for using a "black rifle" for hunting.
    In recent years the black rifle has undergone a name change in the hunting world of the USA, now called MSR (Modern Sporting Rifle).
    Call it the politically correct version of black rifle.
    If they are legal to use for the game you are hunting, where you are hunting and you wish to do so...so be it.
    A tool for every job and I understand that.

    For me, at this time, it's a tool I don't need or want for hunting...Africa or otherwise.
     
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  18. TTundra

    TTundra AH Enthusiast

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    Exactly right. I had a friend in the industry with me refer to them as "adult legos". You can customize them over and over as you see fit. Modify them yourself without going to a gunsmith. Even so far as bring pieces home secretly to not be the wiser to your spouse.

    On the other side, I've sold many components to men and women who wanted a similar setup to the one they carried on deployment.

    I do think the black gun fad gave way to the increasing precision rifle trend though, which I am glad came about.
     
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  19. One Day...

    One Day... GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Could it be... ?

    Could it be that modern (for their time) military weapons inevitably (?) become widely accepted hunting weapons. If we take a quick trip down history lane, the Mauser 98 which is now the epitome of "classic" hunting rifle, started life as the quintessential "assault rifle" of two World Wars (and a few others), not to mention the Mannlicher that was for a brief time its military contracts rival, nor the British Lee–Enfield which was the Empire's response and found favor too in the colonies in civilian (or even military) attire...

    Same goes with cartridges by the way. The 30-06 and .308 world acceptance as hunting cartridges likely owes a lot to their military pedigree, not to mention the 7x57 and various 6.5x5X, nor the .303.

    So, I am not overly surprised to see the "modern sporting rifle" growing ascendancy, although I speculate that this was a major endeavor by manufacturers to find a new market and a new legitimacy for their hardware when "black" became less fashionable and less socially acceptable than tree-bark camo ;-)

    Where, in my mind, the concept reaches its limits...

    1) In order to be as accurate as quality bolt actions, the AR platform guns need to be considerably heavier (11 to 13 lbs). Border line prohibitively so for walk-around hunting, I would say (although I do carry happily an 11 lbs 4 oz .340 Wby for days on end while plains game hunting, and most of us find perfectly normal to tote around 12 lbs or so all day when buff hunting).

    2) I can hardly think of a situation when semi-auto high-volume fire is needed / desired in a hunting scenario (culling is likely different).

    3) The instant availability of (many) follow-up shots inevitably invites "spray & pray" with many who have not learned the benefits of slow aimed fired while wearing government issued fatigues (and even with many who should know better, yours sincerely included).

    This being said, I love mine and I shoot literally hundreds of M118 and .308 Win Match 168 gr BTHP Prvi Partizan Ammo (PPM3082), and .223 Rem Match 75 gr BTHP Hollow Point Prvi Partizan Ammo (PP54) every year at 12" steel to 600 meters with the .223 and 800 meters with the .308 with a pretty high hit ratio. The .223 works fine on prairie dog towns too, but I have yet to find something requiring the .308 power and sustained fire.

    Mk11 & Mk 12.JPG

    Top: Armalite M15 20" Target .308 Win rifle. 13 lbs 2 oz. Genuine 3/4 MOA with 173 gr M118 balls and a number of 168 gr match ammo. Almost as good, but not quite as consistent, as my Steyr Mannlicher SSG69, which is no faint praise...

    Bottom: Wilson Combat 20" .223 Wylde 1/8" match barrel in Rainier top on Colt Match lower with Timney trigger. 11 lbs 12 oz. Genuine 1/2 MOA with a number of 69 to 75 gr match ammo.

    Note the stock-attached ballistic tables, mil rad external turrets scopes, and bipod spigot hand rests on each gun, which betray their role as long range tools (toys).

    Yep, I can probably provide fairly secure flanks with those, and if given the opportunity would endeavor to provide such from enough of a distance and with enough movement to mitigate some (most?) of the effectiveness of the volume of fire from the average platoon of most modern armies...

    PS: by the way, if you have not tried PPU ammo, regular or match, give it a go, you will be amazed at the cost/quality ratio...
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
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  20. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Dare I say, not a lot of M1's went deer hunting after '45. I really do think it is the "lego effect" as noted above that drives this market.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018

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