how refreshing it was to find this forum. i accidentally discovered it when seeking terminal ballistics information. one thing that really concerns me is the way modern hunters are drifting away from their game animals in understanding and empathy. in big part this seems to come from the new long range so called hunting developments with the ultimate being the evolution of the "tactard" of course the marketing machine has gone from capitalizing on this to pushing it on at an ever increasing rate. the modern hunter seems to have no desire to stalk game, and the things that go with that, like understanding the habits of wild animals, and a work ethic. there seems to be no desire to understand any ballistics other than flight of the bullet, in order to use a wind meter and a range finder, then dial the scope. few now even seem to understand the concept of zeroing a rifle to take advantage of point blank range. guys think that any bullet at any range can kill anything, not taking into account what kind of power is required at striking distance, and bullet expansion/penetration characteristics are required at those velocities. and will that bullet, so good at really long range be any use at all at close range. as long as it is a vld it is ok for them. these modern rifles meant for prone shooting are no good at all for most hunting positions, standing, kneeling, or sitting. guys can't shoot offhand anymore. as for pointing, just forget it. i see many guys just using match bullets for hunting and thinking that is ok. here on this forum we see real hunting discussed. thank the lord. rifles i have for different applications are a 280 rem, a 7mm stw, and a 9.3x 64. have owned and used 17, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 30, 33, 35, 36,37, and 45 cal centrefires on game, all reloaded, including getting an original 450 rigby double to regulate with handloads. also 40 and 45 cal black powder cartridge rifles shooting targets out to 1000 yards with paper patch bullets. i would like to hunt one day with one of these rifles, but time does not permit. bruce.