How old is this bull?

Discussion in 'Judging Trophies' started by Justbryan, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. mikecatt13

    mikecatt13 AH Enthusiast

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    "What does hard vs soft boss look like?" Has crossed my mind periodically in recent weeks and I always get distracted before searching so this thread was helpful!

    To the OP: if you were just asking for informational purposes, it sounds like you got some info and I hope you arent turned off by some blunt honesty, no one means any harm or insult by such answers. It sounds like a good taxidermist will make him look just like your photo no matter what.

    If you were asking because of concern of you were told he was hard boss and mature by the PH and you suspect different, dont let it get to you. It doesn't change the experience and memories you will have forever.

    If that wasnt a concern, and he is as advertised then ignore that sentiment. Either way, he will look great on the wall and you will have lasting memories and congratulations on your bull!
     
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  2. mikecatt13

    mikecatt13 AH Enthusiast

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    Some...well, most...of us Americans dont do too good with the metric, sorry eh :D
     

  3. ActionBob

    ActionBob AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Sorry Brad, but no way. I'm not a Cape buffalo expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express:D That bull is closer to 4 or 5 in my opinion. Could be more but not close to 8 or 9. As they mature the bosses harden, the horns drop with the tips going below, or at least pointing to the top of the boss. Of course genetics play a big role.

    It takes one hell of a big animal to weigh a full ton. Very few Cape buffalo would ever tip the scales at that level unless completely mature and lived their whole life on a game farm and fed a lot of grain. Or a real freak of nature;)

    @Wheels I deal with Holstein dairy cattle and we do have big fat cows go as much as 2200 pounds. But that would be one that is 10 plus years old and very healthy. And the hoofprint is more the size of a giraffe than a Cape buffalo. Honestly on my first buffalo hunt, I was very underwhelmed by the size of the tracks. The PH was getting excited about tracks the size of about a year and a half old Holstein.

    Now those Australian water buffalo are big. But pussycats in temperament compared to Cape buffalo. Having hunted both, I'd go after both again, but definitely different hunts. I would have no hesitation to hunt Water buffalo alone. Cape buffalo, you want someone watching your back.

    Cape buffalo mature slower than domestic cattle. Real difficult from a picture like these but I'm going to guess 1200 poinds. But from the seminar that Kevin Robinson put on a year plus ago, that is not a bull that in the real wild areas would be a breeder yet, or he would be just about there. However the observation that he is not scared up is true, a breeder in a wild environment would be scared from fighting.

    However the OP really should be happy with this bull, it is what he signed up for. If he wanted an old wild bull, he should have gone to a wild place for it like Zimbabwe or Mozambique, or Tanzania. Or paid big money for one in RSA.

    In any case, that bull would have been happy to kill you and in the process grind you into the dirt. Just because he is a Cape buffalo. You did successfully hunt very dangerous game;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
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  4. Wheels

    Wheels AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    You know much more about bovines than the rest of us. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
     

  5. ActionBob

    ActionBob AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Bryan be sure to provide your taxidermist with pictures. If he's done any amount of Cape buffalo, he will know what to do. My bull from Zimbabwe had been left in a shed at the Outfitter way too long and had horn worms eating it up. The taxidermist did a great job fixing it up.

    If I'm not mistaken you had 5 bulls in front of you at least on one stalk. And I thought you had a great hunt. Celebrate it for what it is. Again really difficult to guess the weight of an animal from limited pictures and not every angle with a comparison. So my guess could be way off. I do think most people over estimate Cape buffalo body weights. Although they are solid! LOL
     
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  6. Skinnersblade

    Skinnersblade AH Fanatic

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    @ActionBob
    I've often found that with cattle as well , I grew up in and around the cattle industry. It would amaze you how often people over or under estimate the weight of an animal.
     
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  7. Justbryan

    Justbryan AH Member

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    I agree. It was not my estimation. I don't have the experience to get close on weight or boss size/maturity. It was a fun hunt, ie. better than working.

    My next hunt was rescheduled due to Covid-19 in April for New Zealand Tahr, Chamois, and Rusa. Now it will be in July if permitted.

    But I am considering Zambia or Botswana for next year or 2022 if NZ hunt is postponed till next year. The DSC convention intrigued me with either Black Lechwe or Hippo and Crock plus some plains game.

    Thanks. I feel better that my taxidermist can fix any loss.
     
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  8. Justbryan

    Justbryan AH Member

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    PH did not tell my weight nor size. We were just going after a specific bull. This was much bigger than I paid for so I am very happy. I was only promised a bull and I paid very little for the bull.
     

  9. Skinnersblade

    Skinnersblade AH Fanatic

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    I'm glad you are happy in the end that's all that matters.
     
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  10. BWH

    BWH AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    That’s all that matters! Congratulations!!!
     

  11. gillettehunter

    gillettehunter AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Being happy and having a great experience is the most important part. On my last hunt I killed a ration buffalo for the local chief and it was rather exciting. As much as my paid for bull....... Congrats
    Bruce
     
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  12. jeff

    jeff AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I took a management bull last year in sa and it looks very similar. The bull I killed was 6 years old. Any taxidermist worth his salt can rebuild the bosses from photos to the way they were when taken.
     
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  13. IvW

    IvW AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    What?

    They reach sexual maturity at about 4 years, have the size, strength and boss development to compete as herd breeding bulls at about 8 years, they can hold this position only until about ten years at which point they are kicked out but younger stronger 8 year old bulls coming in....

    Life expectancy for wild cape buffalo bulls in their natural state would be a maximum of 14-15 years, before they are killed by lions or trophy hunters.....

    I would love to be able to hunt a 20-25 year old bull in a truly wild area but they do not exist and personally prefer hunting wild buffalo as apposed to ranched alfalfa fed buffalo that live in an unnatural state and can reach 20-25 years of age....
     
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  14. One Day...

    One Day... GOLD SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Yep, just like men... :E Rofl:

    Most boys are physically well developed and capable of reproducing by 18 years old (some a few years earlier than that), but most folks tend to agree that mature manhood comes a few years later. Same goes for about any mammal I can think of, including buff.

    I say hard boss "around 10 year," you say "what?" (like I had said something :eek:), then you say "about 8." Big deal :rolleyes:. It depends on habitats, individuals, etc. Whether it be 8, 9, or 10, who cares, it for sure is not 4 or 5 ... which is the point being discussed in this thread :whistle:

    upload_2020-3-22_15-18-7.png

    upload_2020-3-22_15-20-15.png

    As to life expectancy, it is indeed relative to context, and, again, it depends on habitats, individuals, life experience, depredation, etc. Many bulls indeed die in their 14 to 15 years, and a lot die much younger than that, victim of hunger, thickness, depredation, accident ... or a bullet. Just like many human die in their 30's, 40's, 50's or 60's, victim of hunger, thickness, depredation, accident ... or a bullet. Yet, human life expectancy is still stated to be 79 years, and the correct answer for buff is indeed 20 to 25 years...

    upload_2020-3-22_15-11-44.png

    As to "truly wild area" hunts in Tanzania northern blocks or Selous Reserve, Botswana Okavango Delta, Namibia Caprivi Strip, etc. compared to a South Africa game ranch hunts, we all agree, they are different. We also all agree that a 21 days full bag hunt in the Moyowosi, the Monduli Juu or Masailand is highly desirable. But it is hardly realistic to expect to shoehorn $50,000 safari expectations in a $7,000 5 days/1 buff hunt...

    So, as many already stated, and as Justbryan is lucid to appreciate, he had a great hunt that met his expectations, in which I am sure a cost/benefit analysis was nested. He asks the questions re. age, hardness, shrinkage, etc., we answer honestly, but the answers change nothing to the great experience he had, and I for sure will not down talk his hunt. I am personally very happy that he could go hunt a "ranched alfalfa fed buffalo that live in an unnatural state." That sure beats the hell out of never going to Africa ... both for himself ... and for the future of conservation in Africa...
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020

  15. Firebird

    Firebird AH Enthusiast

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    Steroids be damned-all y all meet my friend Pelorovis!
     
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  16. tigris115

    tigris115 AH Fanatic

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    Did you look at the teeth?
     

  17. Neil Molendyk

    Neil Molendyk AH Senior Member

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    This is a Hard Boss, like a wedding pr**k
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2020
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  18. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    I remember a report from the Tansanian Game Warden-Eric Balson,which searched from thousands of buffalos the biggest.
    And that one weighed 976 KG !! With distance the biggest.
    Sometimes I saw bulls that I belived easy they had a ton.But its probably not true.
    It depends also, when you start hunting ,at the end of the rainy saison they are quite fat and at the beginning of that 200 kg less ,easy.

    We are fishermen and hunters,what can we expect, when we have to guess,always more than in reality. :whistle:
     
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