Hornady just announced bonded DGX

[IvW]

Hornady do not have a great reputation with DG bullets. The new Bonded DGX may be an improvement.

Some issues I see are:
The jacket is too thin towards the front.
There is no expansion arrestment such as with A-frame or Rhino(solid rear core), therefore velocity will be a big expansion control factor.
It is once again rear weighted design which is always an issue in DG bullet.

They may perform ok in doubles as the shape is traditional for regulation and the MV low enough.

Time will tell but I would not try them in my 500 Jeff for hunting, perhaps for plinking.

 

[1dirthawker]

ya know,

i think this is hornadys attempt to listen and fix their bullet due to all of our bitching about how poor the other dgs. good on them. i hope to be able to get some and load up for my gun and shoot a moose or bear with em.

the bottom line is... i want to be able to count on the bullet that i shoot at all game, not just dangerous game. i think hornady is listening and trying to fix the problem. i'll give em a try on non dangerous, and learn something.

not a fan of current run of dgs,but, hornady, well done! thanks for listening

 

[1dirthawker]

DGX...im a dumbass!

 

[Foxi]

Why did they bond them? No one ever had problems with the old DGX, yeah right.
Good to see they finally listened.

they want to play a role in the premium sector.Understandable.
Some people meant they had problems with the old one.
I never.But it was not quite the class of a Swift A Frame,Nosler Partition,Woodleigh ,Degol, etc.
And good to see,that consumer critic workes,also at Hornady.
But nothing replaces a first good shot.
Foxi

 

[IvW]

But nothing replaces a first good shot.
Foxi

For sure, but a first good shot with a true premium grade bullet works better than same with a poor quality bullet.

First shot placement with a bullet that is up to the task cannot be beat.

 

[Foxi]

For sure, but a first good shot with a true premium grade bullet works better than same with a poor quality bullet.

First shot placement with a bullet that is up to the task cannot be beat.

I was always astonished when I was told by my PH (20 years elephant control and others in the Zimb.parks before ) they used strictly the simple PMP ammunition from South Africa .
Sure-the better is always the enemy of the good.

 

[Pondoro]

Foxi..the PMP solids I have seen in the field have been monolithic brass solid bullets....they work very well in .375H&H on elephant...and it may be the only thing you can get hold of in certain countries/areas....gun stores are few and far between in Africa..

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Well who the hell wouldn't trust the opinion of an American hunter with a couple of animals taken over that of PH's like @lvW or Kevin Robertson who gain the same amount of DG experience sometimes in one day over the course of their working adult life? And do so while leading those hunts instead of having their hands held and told when to shoot.

Why don't we go back to the powders, brass and bullets of the early 20th century? After all it worked for them and dead is dead.

 

[Royal27]

For sure, but a first good shot with a true premium grade bullet works better than same with a poor quality bullet.

BINGO!!!!

It's the nearly dead animals that can make a hunter completely dead, all just to save a few $$$ on a bullet.

I will be curious to see in a year or so if either of the two people who voted for Hornady as the best DG bullet available are even bigger fans of the new and improved, or if they simply stocked up with a lifetime supply of the old bullets. This of course assumes that their current bullet goes away.

 

[Foxi]

how many of the voters did really hunt DG ?
This question is not answered.
Paper-tigers are always arround.

 

[Royal27]

how many of the voters did really hunt DG ?
This question is not answered.
Paper-tigers are always arround.

How many of the voters have hunted 100s of DG and are truly qualified to answer? That's what I'd truly like to see - a poll of PHs, as it would be based on LOTS of real world experience.

Since we don't have that though, I do think that a poll of over 100 AH member is pretty interesting, especially considering that our opinions are strongly influenced by the opinion of the PHs we've hunted with. It's why we're here, right? To learn from other members and gain additional knowledge that we don't have personally? Like every other post on the forum, it's up to the individual member to decide what the value of the information is.

 

[TTundra]

How many of the voters have hunted 100s of DG and are truly qualified to answer? That's what I'd truly like to see - a poll of PHs, as it would be based on LOTS of real world experience.

I don't have a dog in this 'debate'...but what I would REALLY like to see is a vote of members here who have used Hornady DG bullets with good results and who have used them with bad results, limiting the field to primary sources who have used them on DG hunts. We tend to see some stories and the bandwagon effect, and quite possibly members who use Hornady DG bullets that don't want to post about it out of fear of being belittled by other members.
Not looking for thread references here, but a potential new thread with posts done by primary sources.

 

[Royal27]

I don't have a dog in this 'debate'...but what I would REALLY like to see is a vote of members here who have used Hornady DG bullets with good results and who have used them with bad results, limiting the field to primary sources who have used them on DG hunts. We tend to see some stories and the bandwagon effect, and quite possibly members who use Hornady DG bullets that don't want to post about it out of fear of being belittled by other members.
Not looking for thread references here, but a potential new thread with posts done by primary sources.

Agree, that would be interesting.

Remember that the poll was about "the best" and not "the worst." I don't know that I've seen much, if any, belittling of any hunter for using the DGX. The arguments always seem to occur when someone says the DGX is "the best" or about it not performing as advertised by Hornady (weight retention for example). If someone wants to shoot the DGX at DG and their PH is supportive then they by all means should do it. I think very few however; truly believe it is "the best" bullet for DG, even amongst those who have used it successfully. If they think it's "good enough" for them then that's fine by me. It's simply not good enough for me based on what I've both seen and heard from people I trust.

I'll use myself as an example. I've used the Barnes TSX with great success. I've never had a problem with it. It's always done 100% what I expected it to do. That said, I've become fairly convinced its not "the best" and using the absolute best is important to me for DG. I doubt I'll purposely use it again on DG. Meaning, I'd not hesitate to use it if that was all that was available, but I'll likely load a North Fork or A-Frame as part of my pre-hunt plan for a soft in the future. And that opinion may change in the future. I hope I won't allow myself to be blinded by 1-2 successful hunts, feeling a need to justify my personal choice, and that I'll remain open to change in the future.

 

[TTundra]

Agree, that would be interesting.

Remember that the poll was about "the best" and not "the worst." I don't know that I've seen much, if any, belittling of any hunter for using the DGX. The arguments always seem to occur when someone says the DGX is "the best" or about it not performing as advertised by Hornady (weight retention for example). If someone wants to shoot the DGX at DG and their PH is supportive then they by all means should do it. I think very few however; truly believe it is "the best" bullet for DG, even amongst those who have used it successfully. If they think it's "good enough" for them then that's fine by me. It's simply not good enough for me based on what I've both seen and heard from people I trust.

I'll use myself as an example. I've used the Barnes TSX with great success. I've never had a problem with it. It's always done 100% what I expected it to do. That said, I've become fairly convinced its not "the best" and using the absolute best is important to me for DG. I doubt I'll purposely use it again on DG. Meaning, I'd not hesitate to use it if that was all that was available, but I'll likely load a North Fork or A-Frame as part of my pre-hunt plan for a soft in the future. And that opinion may change in the future. I hope I won't allow myself to be blinded by 1-2 successful hunts, feeling a need to justify my personal choice, and that I'll remain open to change in the future.

You raise some interesting points about "best" Royal

There is however, certainly no shortage of members who have a distaste, or worse, for Hornady DG ammo and voice it here. I would argue that the Hornady DG bullet/ammo subject has the most opposition on threads. To an extent, that feedback is good as companies do pay attention and this new release might be an outcome of some research spent viewing this forum.

I don't think I've seen more than possibly one or two voice it as best (if even that many) but the majority stating that it is terrible for DG.

Hence, my wanting to learn about said poll. I have not hunted with hornady DG bullets nor have I hunted DG in Africa, but as I'm preparing for trips, learning about each option is so beneficial. So, maybe I'll try to launch the poll and thread to drum up actual experiences from users and their thoughts. I have about 300ish rounds through my 416 Rigby in preparation. I hope to have over 500 before my trip to make my use of the rifle as close to a part of my body as possible. Hornady prices sure allow for the average hunter and non reloader (I personally reload) to get much more practicing in.

 

[lwaters]

If I were a PH and a bullet company came in with a TV show and gave me a bunch of ammo ect. I wouldn't bad mouth the stuff even if I liked something else. Ammo is expensive in Africa.

 

[Royal27]

There is however, certainly no shortage of members who have a distaste, or worse, for Hornady DG ammo and voice it here. I would argue that the Hornady DG bullet/ammo subject has the most opposition on threads. To an extent, that feedback is good as companies do pay attention and this new release might be an outcome of some research spent viewing this forum.

Agreed. I'm one of them. And I certainly voice it. I've seen too many concrete examples of bullet failure from the current Hornady and it not performing as advertised and expected. Whether it kills a particular animal is of no concern to me (plenty of buffalo have been killed with a .303 but I wouldn't use one to kill a buff even if legal, and I'd argue with anyone who said it was the "best" buffalo rifle because their one and only buffalo dropped like a rock when shot with one). My concern is about that next animal it might not kill when it comes apart. Remember, it only has to happen once. Back to the "best" though. I feel strongly enough about this one that I'll respectfully disagree with anyone who states its the best. I truly believe that many newcomers use Hornady DG ammo based on general Hornady reputation/name recognition/price alone. Once they research bullet performace and look at facts, they often change their mind and use something else.. I did this personally in fact, and largely based on information from this forum.

I don't think I've seen more than possibly one or two voice it as best (if even that many) but the majority stating that it is terrible for DG.

I wonder why this is? I mean you truly can find failures for any bullet, so why does the African hunting community pick on this one instead of others? Hmmm.... To me, the answer is obvious. It's the vast number (comparatively) of failures.

Hornady prices sure allow for the average hunter and non reloader (I personally reload) to get much more practicing in.

Not only do I agree, but I've used DGX for practice in the past, both for my .375 and .458. I quit with the 375 because the accuracy was so terrible from my rifle, but the Lott I think I shot around 200 rounds before I started to hand load for that caliber. Hornady and PRVI are generally the cheapest and therefore make great practice ammunition.

 

[IvW]

If I were a PH and a bullet company came in with a TV show and gave me a bunch of ammo ect. I wouldn't bad mouth the stuff even if I liked something else. Ammo is expensive in Africa.

That is part of the problem with TV shows. I have hunted with a few TV show hosts (refused to continue one hunt with a certain individual due to his complete lack of ethics and respect for the animals he tried to hunt and have never hunted with him again), trust me more often than not what you see on the TV is not what happened in the field/bush. The main drive in many cases, is financial gain no matter how it is achieved.

Free ammo is of no use if it is crap. My life and the lives of trackers and clients is not worth it. I only use what I know has worked for me in the past no matter the cost.

I may plink and practice with the freebies though and reload the brass if it is good.

 

[Ridgewalker]

IvW, so I am only aware of one bullet we can get in the states that meets your criteria...Trophy Bonded Bear Claw...correct? Weighted front.
I cannot even find them to reload.

 

[TTundra]

Agreed. I'm one of them. And I certainly voice it. I've seen too many concrete examples of bullet failure from the current Hornady and it not performing as advertised and expected. Whether it kills a particular animal is of no concern to me (plenty of buffalo have been killed with a .303 but I wouldn't use one to kill a buff even if legal, and I'd argue with anyone who said it was the "best" buffalo rifle because their one and only buffalo dropped like a rock when shot with one). My concern is about that next animal it might not kill when it comes apart. Remember, it only has to happen once. Back to the "best" though. I feel strongly enough about this one that I'll respectfully disagree with anyone who states its the best. I truly believe that many newcomers use Hornady DG ammo based on general Hornady reputation/name recognition/price alone. Once they research bullet performace and look at facts, they often change their mind and use something else.. I did this personally in fact, and largely based on information from this forum.

Well, I do believe your response was in agreement with mine, ha.

I wonder why this is? I mean you truly can find failures for any bullet, so why does the African hunting community pick on this one instead of others? Hmmm.... To me, the answer is obvious. It's the vast number (comparatively) of failures.

Though we could say it's obvious....this is the reason we need that thread..

Not only do I agree, but I've used DGX for practice in the past, both for my .375 and .458. I quit with the 375 because the accuracy was so terrible from my rifle, but the Lott I think I shot around 200 rounds before I started to hand load for that caliber. Hornady and PRVI are generally the cheapest and therefore make great practice ammunition.

I hope a consensus for many

 

[IvW]

IvW, so I am only aware of one bullet we can get in the states that meets your criteria...Trophy Bonded Bear Claw...correct? Weighted front.
I cannot even find them to reload.

North Fork, Throphy Bonded Bear Claw, Swift A-frame(the Swift starts as a rear weighted but upon impact and when mushrooming/set-up starts it converts itself to forward weighted. The cross section controls the front expansion and a bulge appears behind the cross section which moves the weight forward, this keeps the bullet stable and in a straight line).

You will have no issues on Cape Buffalo with any of these.