Heym vs Kriegsoff Double Rifles

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by norfolk shooter, Sep 12, 2016.

  1. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

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    I have been lucky to find a Heym double for the same price as a new Krieghoff in the UK. The Heym is second hand unused and comes with a scope (I would change the scope anyhow). I was just wondering which of the two would be better in terms of build?? The cal is 375 H&H. Before anybody says it I know the little pawls might break, but how many people has this happen to?

    Many thanks fellow chumrades!
     
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  2. rinehart0050

    rinehart0050 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I don't have any experience with doubles, but I am jealous of your opportunity to buy one. One of these days I'll get one too!

    Best of luck with your purchase- share some photos once you get it!
     
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  3. Wheels

    Wheels AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Say it ain't so.:eek:

    In the land of Lancaster, Purdey, H&H, Boss, Jeffery, Westley Richards, Anderson Wheeler, Rigby, Fraser, et al.

    And your choosing between Teutonic firearms. :whistle:



    Sorry Norfolk. Just had to give you a little grief. :D Sorry but I can't help you. Wish you all the best in your decision.(y)
     
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  4. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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  5. bassasdaindia

    bassasdaindia AH Elite

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    Heym over Krieghoff IMHO
     
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  6. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Norfolk I am jealous my friend!
     

  7. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Well, I'll answer your question :)

    Grab that Krieghoff and never look back. It is a perfect "client's weapon." The only other like it is the Blaser S2, and most feel the Krieghoff design is superior (not me - but most). When you hunt DG with it, you will be number three or four in line working through all that nasty wait-a-bit. The K-Gun will be loaded but not cocked (the Heym and any other traditional boxlock will be "on safe" - hopefully). The Krieghoff cocks when you push forward the cocking lever which is located and acts like a safety on a traditional action. You will feel a lot less guilt should those muzzles swing through your PH's or trackers shoulder blades as you try to maintain control in an African carry (a carry alternative abomination for another thread). The K-Gun is also noted for very dependable trigger pulls and fabulous inherent accuracy. Lastly, at last count, I know 5 very experienced PHs toting Krieghoffs - all of whom are sold on the rifles. Ivan Carter, of course, sometimes carries a Heym. I am sure there are others.
     

  8. markferrigno

    markferrigno AH Enthusiast

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    I am a bit biased as I consider myself a "Heym" guy. I own 2 O/U doubles (non-DG calibers) 2 Combo guns, 3 drillings and 3 bolt action rifles. I have been to the factory 6 or 7 times and watched some of my guns being built and how they do things. The craftsmanship is second to none and everything is done by hand, checked and re-checked. Of course I am not badmouthing Kreighoff, I do not know much about their doubles. I would imagine in thiscase you can't really make a bad choice, bit go with Heym.......
     
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  9. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

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    Guys its not a done deal (yet) but I need to off load my current A Francotte BA 375 and feel the dealer that has the heym might be more helpful with that. Mind you the folks that import krieghoff have an engineer that did his apprenticeship at Francotte when they were still going.
     

  10. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

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    Wheels it all comes down to brass. I could buy something that would pay off a chunk of my mortgage but that kind of money Alison would find out about.:eek::Peeking:
     
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  11. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

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    Mate i tried to get a 470NE put on my FAC for expanding ammo and use in the UK on deer. You could guess what the rozzers said :A Argue::A Whacky:

    You may know the Heym its for sale at J Roberts
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016

  12. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    didnt see it when i was just there but i had my eyes on the .275 most of the time :) , but a .500 double did call to me as well......:eek:...just had a look on gunstar at it and it looks nice . the wood isnt bad either and i like the price inc detachable top quality scope. def the rifle i would go for out of the two. arrange to go shoot it
     

  13. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

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    I dont think he has had it that long
     

  14. Patrick R

    Patrick R AH Fanatic

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    I would just be happy to have a double, any brand will do...:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     

  15. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

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    Part of me thinks stick with the Francotte I cycle that bolt PBQ and can get two rounds on target in 1.6ish seconds!! So I do find myself thinking what I save on a double can go towards hunting!
     

  16. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    with a .375 i would stay with the bolt if you like it and are happy with it. maybe cut down on the exotic teas and put that money to a double in a proper calibre.........;)..:E Rofl:
     
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  17. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

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    Mike like I said getting a proper calibre in the UK is a pain in the backside. The police just wont have it! That and if I cut back on exotic tea I run the risk of death to my self.
     
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  18. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    yup i knew the tea would be the problem....:E Big Grin:. surely with the bigger cals its not a problem its just you are only allowed solids for range use and no softs....?
     

  19. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Hello norfolk shooter,

    In a perfect world, I definitely would prefer any double rifle, single shot, drilling, etc. of mine to be chambered for relatively low pressure, rimmed / flanged cartridges.
    However, I have owned a Merkel in .375 H&H belted-rimless, (side by side, with 23.+ inch extractor barrels).
    It only had one rather tiny pawl per side.
    Even though this particular rifle was clumsily made with the right side chamber or throat (or both?) too tight, nonetheless it never failed to extract.
    With the factory loaded ammunition it was supposedly made for (I ordered it from the US Distributer for Merkel products, brand new with all the attendant paperwork), the right side cartridge always badly flattened the primer every time and occasionally, it would pierce a primer, causing a tiny piece of primer metal to protrude backward, into the striker hole.
    When this happened from time to time, I had to hold the lever in the open position while enthusiastically bouncing my rifle on my knee.
    This strange ritual would shear off the primer metal and the rifle would open.
    Even with that nonsense, it never failed to extract.

    Today, I have a Heym 88B, chambered in .458 Winchester, with 25.5 inch ejector barrels (made in the 1980s but, obviously very well cared for).
    Even though it is also made for a belted, rimless cartridge (not what I would call an especially low pressure one either), so far it has not failed to eject.
    IMO, the Heym double is everything that the Merkel might wish to be but, definitely is not.
    The Heym has, among other robust features, two pawls per cartridge.

    In regards to rimless chamberings for the Krieghoff double, I do not know if they enjoy double pawls for each cartridge or not.
    Krieghoff firearms in general do have a good reputation for reliability, durability, accuracy, etc.
    Unfortunately, I have never fired one.
    However, for my taste, I do not like the modernistic looks of Krieghoff doubles these days, neither do I appreciate their short barrels (just shy of 24 inches, like that sticky Merkel was).
    Heym is closer to the traditional Pre-war British appearance - much to my preference, including slightly longer barrels as standard.
    This coupled with the aforementioned double pawls per cartridge, intercepting sears, articulated front trigger, proper regulation before it leaves the factory, means that I prefer the Heym over any other brand of currently made double rifle selling new for under about $20,000.US dollars.
    If that's not enough, there is icing on the cake ... at least here in Alaska - a well cared for Heym double in excellent condition, will usually sell second hand, for about what it cost new.

    In regards to scopes on double rifles, I am not interested in that any more.
    When I had that defective Merkel, I sent it to JJ Perodeau here in The States with full run-down on the problem, plus my request to claw mount it with a Leupold 2.5 power scope and re-regulate it with my favorite "bushveld load" of 300 grain round nose bullet at 2400 fps.
    As such it never showed excess pressure again and scoped it would keep both barrels hitting a playing card at 100 yards from sand bags.
    The left barrel in fact would keep all shots in a golf ball size group (when the planets lined up just right - occasionally smaller) but evidently the right side barrel was doomed from the factory and JJ did the best he could with that defective pipe.

    With that rifle, I took 9 African animals, some through the scope and some via the open sights.
    (That little claw mounted scope fit nicely into my pocket for stalking in extremely heavy riverine bush, as the situation sometimes arose).
    However, at the end of the day, I decided that I did not like the ever so slight top-heaviness that my scope, claw bases and rings added to this otherwise handy little rifle.
    So today, I definitely would not scope any double of mine.
    This is not to say that I would not buy one that is already scoped but, I would not do that to my double rifle if it did not have a scope to begin with.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
    matt85 likes this.

  20. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

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    And that's my problem. I'm a hand loader and want to be able to load my softs as well as my solids
     

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