Hey you humps cop some lead

Skinnersblade

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I wonder if they will still go through with it? Given the wild fires and the massive amount of animal life lost they could well need all the specimens they can get for repopulating barren areas. An invasive species is better then no game at all.
 

Doug Hamilton

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I'll bite why shouldn't they?
Because destructive, invasive species don't belong there. In the U.S. we have carp, cats, hogs, zebra mussels, green crabs, etc. The list goes on and on. These species can out compete native species and destroy habitats. Look at the "wild" horses in the west. They have over grazed the areas where bighorn sheep, mule deer, and elk lived and spread diseases to them. Then look at the destruction of crops by starlings and pigeons (which also spread some human diseases). The animals of Australia have evolved to survive huge fires, but they can't repopulate an area if all of the available vegetation is being eaton by camels.
 

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When the feed in their regular area is burned or otherwise destroyed they will move to a new area eventually encroaching on inhabited areas and farmland. That will cause no end of problems. Best to thin them out before then. They don't have to be totally eradicated, just decimated to a level the habitat can sustain.

The same holds true for other feral species. They will migrate to where the feed is.
 

WebleyGreene455

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So what are camels good for? I understand why they were introduced to Australia; that makes sense to me, yeah? Camel bone is fine for... arts and crafts or whatever, but can you eat camel? Camel-hair is used for clothes but is the hide suitable for leather? I mean, what do you do with a pile of dead camels at the end of the day, exactly? Turn then into glue and dog food? I'm genuinely curious.
 

bruce moulds

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i believe people eat camel meat.
it is certainly good for petfood.
the big issue is the economics of doing these things.
in central aust, transport has to travel a long way over rough roads, often impassable in the wet.
live transport is done, but on a casual basis.
camel abattoirs are very specialized so economics is non viable mostly.
some camels are live exported to the middle east for racing and meat.
i know a man who lost everything when he had a lot of meat in chillers and got flooded in and it all went bad.
the most economic and realistic way of dealing with feral camels, horses, donkeys, goats, and pigs is helicopter shooting.
here in oz it is a rule that animals shot from a helicopter must have at least 2 bullets in them.
the real professionals use 308 rifles that self load and fire 2 shots at the pull of a trigger.
they are not very high and not far away either, so the 308 is viable.
from above the spine is a viable target.
bruce.
 

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The most recent numbers i saw, as reported by the ABC, puts the "herd" at 1.5m Camels Australia wide.
Current Government sponsored control work is not even accounting for the natural increase in numbers.
 

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Ok, so the area the camels are in might never carry a wildfire. Well at least carry a fire that will drive the Camels into areas of better vegetation. The are they are culling these From is essentially a desert, that why they haven’t been successfully controlled previously. Camels survive in the desert. They were introduced to cross the desert among other things, like most things they were abandoned when no longer required. Like all invasive animals they just thrive in certain conditions and cause problems. We have wild horse wreaking havoc on some of our most delicate and fertile high country of our nation but controlling them becomes political and the minority become outraged.
I speak from a view of a person who has worked in BioSecurity, Conservation and also as a frontline Wildfire firefighting. I imagine many don’t know our landscape as we don’t know yours. There is. whole lot of desert and arid land In Central Australia with our fertile soils, rainforest and other densely vegetated areas are mostly coastal becoming more sparse as you go inland.
2000 Camels a Day, humane destruction, professional shooters .
I dare say it takes more than 2 bullets to consider a kill. They are supposed to make a call on it, call a kill. I agree a helicopter and spine shot will get results but. By definition they are professional all are deemed competent under a training package, some are more professional than others some are more competent.

Perhaps they could allow hunters under strict conditions, making a dent in a population is hard but aerial shooting is a big cost that’s 20k worth of bullets minimum, 4x1.5 hr runs in a helicopter is 6 hr days for the machine/s and pilots.
How many Camels can you shoot in an hour? Maybe 100? 200 rounds fired? 300 rounds in a run. New shooter, while one rests 4 runs per. A nine 1200 bullets a day, make it 1500. X 4 runs 600 shot per aircraft between 2 shooters

600 camels per day per aircraft that’s 15 aircraft days 3 aircraft at about 12k per day plus all added wages and logistics . I hope it works oht ok but I think it is ambitious.
 

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The most recent numbers i saw, as reported by the ABC, puts the "herd" at 1.5m Camels Australia wide.
Current Government sponsored control work is not even accounting for the natural increase in numbers.
Let ethically hunters in. Let us contribute to the economy by undertaking this work on behalf of traditional owners
 

CBH Australia

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I wonder if they will still go through with it? Given the wild fires and the massive amount of animal life lost they could well need all the specimens they can get for repopulating barren areas. An invasive species is better then no game at all.
They dont think like that here at all.
I'll bite why shouldn't they?
They destroy fences among other things. Australia did not have any hard hooves animals so from and environmental perspective they all do damage. I’m not a greenie but a shooter who is happy to cull animals and the challenge is doing it well. Ethically and being good at it.
We do not hunt natives in the sense of the word hunt. We are only permitted to hunt introduced species. They will not allow a an introduced species to prosper for sport, recreation or pleasure. Australia has grazing or farming of pigs, goats, sheep and cattle for food and agricultural production. Introduced species are a threat to agriculture and conservation. Unless of course it is Brumbies, they are a threat to the natural Balance of right and wrong. People get to hung up on them because they are horses.
 

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Let ethically hunters in. Let us contribute to the economy by undertaking this work on behalf of traditional owners
Pie in the sky.

Getting recreational hunters in to that remote, physically challenging environment in to deal with a problem of this scale, across the size of area and type of landscape where they are located, would be akin to pissing on a bushfire trying to put it out.

The most recent Government cull resulted in 100,000 animals removed in three weeks of flying.
How long do you think it would take "ethical hunters" to have the same impact ?
 

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CBH Australia

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Pie in the sky.

Getting recreational hunters in to that remote, physically challenging environment in to deal with a problem of this scale, across the size of area and type of landscape where they are located, would be akin to pissing on a bushfire trying to put it out.

The most recent Government cull resulted in 100,000 animals removed in three weeks of flying.
How long do you think it would take "ethical hunters" to have the same impact ?

Too long, but what about integrated pest management? Something they tech in pest management circles.
At least try, people are willing to pay. People are willing to try.
I know you have hundreds of tons of experience in culling both large and small pest animals but some of what I have seen doesn’t work either.
I understand your comment but part of my post was trying to explain or geography and where these pests roam isn’t where we were fighting fires the last season that was unprecedented or unrecorded but has come to the attention of international members
 

PaulT

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Too long, but what about integrated pest management? Something they tech in pest management circles.
At least try, people are willing to pay. People are willing to try.
I know you have hundreds of tons of experience in culling both large and small pest animals but some of what I have seen doesn’t work either.
I understand your comment but part of my post was trying to explain or geography and where these pests roam isn’t where we were fighting fires the last season that was unprecedented or unrecorded but has come to the attention of international members

Probably one reason why we have these problems in Australia to begin with.
These issues are being "work-shopped" in classrooms by "intellects" and academics as opposed to bush-people with bush knowledge and experience.

People ARE NOT WILLING TO PAY. PERIOD !

A good friend of mine has been operating in the desert regions, in co-operation with Indigenous groups, offering guided hunters opportunity for camel hunting for close on ten years now.
He books, on average, four to five hunts per year and at least three or four of those will be from International hunters, not Aussie hunters.
Reason being is that unless you can offer a hunt for $25/day it will always be too expensive for the local market.
Not here to trash my countrymen, but the facts are the facts.

Recreational shooting is not the answer, this problem has escalated to the point beyond where any effort other than intense, concentrated commercial culling on large scale will have any real impact on the number of these animals.

I can tell you that our Government is already aware of what they are facing and the only thing stopping them is the hundreds of millions of dollars required to get the job done.
They will NEVER get rid of them all, but even to get close to dropping the number of the overall population will require a cull in the order on scale bigger than anything we have seen here in this country since the BTEC program in Northern Australia several decades ago.
 

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