Gun Control - The Debate, Argument Or Whatever ...

Pheroze

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The concern I have isn't with gun control but competence. There is a lot of studies about effective armed response and fear. Last I read the police in the USA will hit a target in a firefight 20% of the time. The criminals have about a 12% likelihood of hitting their target. If we assume teachers will not have time to do specialist firearms training they will send lead into rooms and hallways crowded with children up to 80-88% of the time. I will be interested to see how this gap in competence will be met.

The other thing that has gotten lost with this deputy is that the US military has a lot of data on fear. Bottom line is there is no actual way to control it. Once you brain goes into self preservation mode you do not act rationally. Loads of examples of this.

So, I really question whether the deputy response was intentioanl in that sense when it has nothing to do with his training. But, also, he was probably not skilled enough to conduct a firefight in a hallway teaming with people. So I think things would have gotten messy if he tried to identify a 19 year old target in a sea of 17 year olds who were probably running around with bags and who knows what else.

From the studies whomever is carrying a weapon, and does not have active shooter training, will only provide safety in a very limited scenario. Certainly not in a complex school shooting situation. That's probably why in some 53,000 firearm incidents in 2015 only about 1300 where self defense situations. Most of the time it is better to leave it to the specialists.

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Ok I’ve got to get in my 2 cents here when you want to protect something that is worth a lot cash, gold, or anything of high value you surround it with guns.
But when it come to our children we put them in one place and disarm all around them except those who don’t follow the law.
I am the president of my local Board of Education we are a very small district in a very rural setting we do not have the luxury of local police force we have to rely on State Police who’s station is 28 miles away our county sheriff is 38miles away.
Our average police response time is over 45 minuets and it all depends if there is a unit on the south end of the their district.
So yes I want to arm our teachers custodians and anyone else of sound mind.
Yes we are in a different setting than most schools but our kids need protection just as much as the city and town kids do.
Now as I watch tv surf the net all I see is gun control BS.
People who have armed guards at every entrance to their work place and armed details that escort them to and from work on the tax payers dime Hollywood Stars that hire bodyguards to protect them and liberals who think it’s the gun that does the killing.
Do I think school shootings are funny absolutely not but sadly the liberal answers to the problem is.
If you want to see if armed teachers make a difference check the statistics of school shootings in Israel since they armed teachers hardly any school shootings.
But taking guns away or putting up gun free zones is inviting disaster because criminals don’t obey laws that what makes them criminals.
Are we really going to take pointers on how to protect our children from a group of people who a little while back were dressed as vaginas and protesting for the right to kill unborn babies?
I would like to see their prospective but I can’t get my head up my A$$.
Shawn
 
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Most people think they understand our situation but they don’t. My neighbor woke up one night to find two men in his house 1 with a baseball bat he held them at gun point and called 911 1 hour and 25 minuets later a state trooper got there. We have a voluntary fire department that is about it for quick response.
The local EMS ambulance has two vehicles if a bad shipment of drugs hits their town better hope your heart is ok. And yes the lack of police presence makes the area a great place to deal and distribute drugs. There is no counting on police to save you I’m not saying to pass out guns like candy but we have a few veterans and active reservists and training would have to be obtained. And it is our teachers who came up with the idea in the first place after Sandy Hook.
 
We are not totally in the middle of nowhere the two closest towns 10 -12 miles away have police they are in a different country so their response to a active shooter could be obtained at a time loss due to 911 center switch over and availability of officers. Most are part time with other jobs.
We had a SRO for a while fired him for misconduct then the grant ended. Then had choice layoff 1.5 teachers or have SRO.
Shawn
 
The concern I have isn't with gun control but competence. There is a lot of studies about effective armed response and fear. Last I read the police in the USA will hit a target in a firefight 20% of the time. The criminals have about a 12% likelihood of hitting their target. If we assume teachers will not have time to do specialist firearms training they will send lead into rooms and hallways crowded with children up to 80-88% of the time. I will be interested to see how this gap in competence will be met.

The other thing that has gotten lost with this deputy is that the US military has a lot of data on fear. Bottom line is there is no actual way to control it. Once you brain goes into self preservation mode you do not act rationally. Loads of examples of this.

So, I really question whether the deputy response was intentioanl in that sense when it has nothing to do with his training. But, also, he was probably not skilled enough to conduct a firefight in a hallway teaming with people. So I think things would have gotten messy if he tried to identify a 19 year old target in a sea of 17 year olds who were probably running around with bags and who knows what else.

From the studies whomever is carrying a weapon, and does not have active shooter training, will only provide safety in a very limited scenario. Certainly not in a complex school shooting situation. That's probably why in some 53,000 firearm incidents in 2015 only about 1300 where self defense situations. Most of the time it is better to leave it to the specialists.
While I don't disagree with your premise, in this particular case, the cops would have found if they had bothered to look, a single shooter with an AR15 shooting at a lot of unarmed people. Probably even they would have known who to shoot.
 
Well as someone who was at Virginia Tech when that shooting happen and as someone who is married to a teacher, I wish they would give teachers the OPTION to conceal carry if they took additional training.

My wife would never carry a gun, she is a good shot, but she doesn't have the mental mindset to do it. She knows it and has no desire to ever carry. Butttt in this latest shooting there was a football coach that strikes me as the type that would have been able to do something. In the VT shooting teachers barcaded the doors and held on as long as they could so kids could escape out the window. Now imagine instead of barricading the door they were on the other side with a gun. It changes the scenario. Not all teachers have to be armed, it is actually better if nobody knows who is armed, could be everyone could be no one, but that will have an effect of these cowards. These are no longer soft targets.

Also, given the current school shooting procedures of locking everything down and huddling, the armed individual might not be in a scenario where they have kids running around, they would just have a door, and if an intruder came through the door it would make it easier to engage the target with a positive outcome and minimizing the loss of innocent lives.

Also the memes are funny, this is a sad situation and it will always turn political, but blaming the NRA is like blaming the truck driver union for protecting the rights of truck drivers when they deliver the bread that made you over weight. No one is actually making fun of the deaths or the situation, these are in response to the political blame.
 
I had an M1 carbine in the mid '60s when I was sixteen and in high school. Had it for a couple years. It used 30 round magazines. Used it to plink and shoot paper. It never hurt anyone (at least in civilian life). Now we have ARs & AKs, not much functionally different from the old carbines and now we have school shootings. What's changed the guns or the people using them?
 
The problem with the gun debate is that it does cloud the real question - what makes people kill scores of innocent, unarmed strangers. Seriously, how freaking weird is that?

The shooter back in the 60's at the University of Texas had a brain tumor (I think). Thats is an answer. There are other countries where civilians have access to firearms without this level of violence. When did it become a fad to massacre strangers? They need to take more of these deranged people alive so we can learn what is making them tick. I just can't comprehend it. I don't watch tv because I find is morally repugnant for the most part. I don't know, is there a link there?

I am praying you folks in the USA find a solution to this tragic problem. Seriously, it's just too sad for words. God bless.
 
The problem with the gun debate is that it does cloud the real question - what makes people kill scores of innocent, unarmed strangers. Seriously, how freaking weird is that?

The shooter back in the 60's at the University of Texas had a brain tumor (I think). Thats is an answer. There are other countries where civilians have access to firearms without this level of violence. When did it become a fad to massacre strangers? They need to take more of these deranged people alive so we can learn what is making them tick. I just can't comprehend it. I don't watch tv because I find is morally repugnant for the most part. I don't know, is there a link there?

I am praying you folks in the USA find a solution to this tragic problem. Seriously, it's just too sad for words. God bless.
Well said!
 
@Pheroze, It can all be traced back to one factor, breakdown of the family unit and family culture. There are exceptions to the rule but I'm sorry but a woman alone CANNOT raise a responsible male. Look at the mass shooters, most from a single parent female family. Examples? The mental case in Newtown and now the Florida kid. To these misguided women, it's the old adage about the mother watching her son graduate from boot camp remarking
"Oh look, everyone is out of step except my Johnny". They refuse to admit they've raised a fkd up kid.
 
@Pheroze, It can all be traced back to one factor, breakdown of the family unit and family culture. There are exceptions to the rule but I'm sorry but a woman alone CANNOT raise a responsible male. Look at the mass shooters, most from a single parent female family. Examples? The mental case in Newtown and now the Florida kid. To these misguided women, it's the old adage about the mother watching her son graduate from boot camp remarking
"Oh look, everyone is out of step except my Johnny". They refuse to admit they've raised a fkd up kid.
No doubt cultural elements are big factors. I would wager break down of the family unit is but one.
Concluding that with the decline of morals and values came less resistance to killing. Hollywood, video games and all of the other pollutants that our kids are subjected to help to break this resistance down more and more each day. Yet all of this is socially acceptable and no one is screaming to ban television or the Nintendo machine that are turning our youngsters minds into gelatin.
Diminished presence of God in our culture, violent video games, hollywood garbage, lack of morality in our political culture... on and on.
I agree with the points you and @Bullthrower338 have made.
“We’re” producing more and more shitheads in this country than ever before.
 
Goes back to the home. Parents are not spending quality time with their kids. If they are not teaching them someone is. People talk about God in our schools I don't want someone else teaching something that important to my children. Then there is T Ball.
 
The shooter’s biological mother was a drug addict. I do believe this is part of the problem.
Being from the small school and now working with the school I see the kids of those who for lack of a better term did not make wise decision on what chemicals they used. There is definitely a connection to parents who used drugs and kids with mental troubles. Not a Dr or scientist just grew up in a small community where everyone new what was going on.
Most of the mass shooters have one thing in common drugs for mental problems.
Shawn
 
Goes back to the home. Parents are not spending quality time with their kids. If they are not teaching them someone is. People talk about God in our schools I don't want someone else teaching something that important to my children. Then there is T Ball.
T ball where everyone is a winner we teach our kids that every one is a winner then when they reach adulthood they find out that not how life goes. This is the greatest nation to live in but there are still winners and losers and if you don’t know how to deal with the losses it will get to you.
If you go through your youth not experiencing defeat you have no idea how to pick up the pieces and try again.
Shawn
 
I taught community college kids for nine years in a shop environment. First class I would ask them if they've used any type of power equipment, hand drills, power saws, sanders, lawn mowers, rototillers, etc. One student answered "my mother won't let me use any of that, it's too dangerous." Same with several others. One said he couldn't mow the lawn, mom said he'd cut his foot off. Yep ,both raised by a single female parent. As one who helped his father rebuild an old Ford tractor and work in his landscaping business from the age of 12, all I could do was shake my head and prepare for disaster. There has been a generation of dysfunctional males perpetrated on this country by feminists, Hollywood and the mass media. Sooner or later, it's going to come back and haunt us.
Edit. Come to think of it, it's haunting us now.
 
what makes people kill scores of innocent, unarmed strangers

I will add to what the four posts above say about the "why", to me there is one major problem to add also. That is lack of God, or in other words pure evil. People that let the devil influence them through the world, ie drugs, video games, peer pressure, alcohol, lack of respect, etc..
 
I have to laugh at the much ballyhooed age restriction on semi-autos. Do these fools actually think someone changes between the ages of 18 and 21? Dysfunction started at an early age with all of the mass murderers. Not in the field but I doubt they were going to get any less dysfunctional with age.
 
Age restriction of 21 MIGHT have done some good in Florida but wouldn't have in Sandy Hook.
As pointed out, the problem is much more complicated. I believe it stems from the degeneration of our culture.
 
I think that the mental drugs use to fix these problems are part of the problem if not most of it.
I have a friend who lost her husband at 40 and her Dr gave her happy pills to help her cope with it. She found someone else 2years later who made her get off the drugs today she freely admits that for a little over 2 years she floated through life not knowing what was real and what wasn’t.
Now give that crap to someone who is unstable and set them in front of a video game and see if they can tell the difference.
Shawn
 

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