Game and Range "limits" for 577-450

[EDELWEISS]

Ive become Martini obsessed of late (3 with thoughts of more). The 577-450 round intrigues me and I'll be reloading for it; but I wanna keep the loads safe especially for 100+ year old guns. So I'm looking for advice on what size game (US and Afrika) I can/should hunt with it AND what kind of distance I can go.

Honestly I'm NOT a distance guy any more (if ever). I much prefer to stay under 100 meters and under 50 for anything dangerous (its NOT Dangerous down the block unless its got an AK). One of my rifles was converted to 45-70. The gunsmith says I can use modern loads as long as I don't try the "magnums"; but I had planned on using only loads made to the original power specs.

So where are we with 577-450 "original" power loads (I haven't decided if I'll use BP, BP substitute, or smokeless)? Will it work for say Zebra or Kudo, or Wildebeest. I'm guessing (Eastern) Whitetail; but what about Wild Boar, Black Bear, Moose, Elk, Caribou? Should I bring a Howdah pistol just in case???

 

[EDELWEISS]

Oh yeah, I'm contemplating a rifled 12ga barrel for a Greener (Martini) action. The smith is playing around with some barrel blanks--if the rifled idea doesn't work, I was thinking just adding sights to a "tight" bore and using round ball or maybe conicals out of brass cases. The smith suggested 28ga for 58ga minie balls???

Any thoughts

 

[Red Leg]

The 577-450 was chambered in a lot of late 19th century rifles and combination guns. Everyone pretty much consigned them to a place above the fireplace as soon as almost anything better came along. The literature is full of folks being stomped, bitten, and gored when it was used on dangerous game. It did seem to work against the occasional marauding Zulu impi. It would not be my choice if I were paying for a hunt.

The world is full of rifled 12 bores. They work exceptionally well. I have a Browning A-Bolt in rifled 12 bore and it took a lot of whitetail in MD when I was stationed there. Tony Galazan even sells a http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/product/rbl-20-professional-20ga-sabot-slug-gun-24/ 20 bore, double rifle. It isn't the cheapest solution, but it would be an awesome deer rifle for most of Maryland.

 

[EDELWEISS]

The 577-450 was chambered in a lot of late 19th century rifles and combination guns. Everyone pretty much consigned them to a place above the fireplace as soon as almost anything better came along. The literature is full of folks being stomped, bitten, and gored when it was used on dangerous game. It did seem to work against the occasional marauding Zulu impi. It would not be my choice if I were paying for a hunt.

The world is full of rifled 12 bores. They work exceptionally well. I have a Browning A-Bolt in rifled 12 bore and it took a lot of whitetail in MD when I was stationed there. Tony Galazan even sells a http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/product/rbl-20-professional-20ga-sabot-slug-gun-24/ 20 bore, double rifle. It isn't the cheapest solution, but it would be an awesome deer rifle for most of Maryland.

Thanks Bro. Im not planning to use the Martini or 577-45 on the BIG FIVE; but your thoughts and others like it are exactly what Im looking for. YEAH I know I can use a modern rifle/caliber (I do that); but Im also looking for what I can hunt with the Martini, what the 577-450 can do, and what caliber options I can chamber?

As far as "paying for a hunt", well thats exactly what Im doing, the $$$ is only a small part; but the hunt is what its all about. A bad day of hunting is waaaaay better than just about everything else; so yeah I'll pay for the hunt and I'll also go home happy even if I go home empty handed, and if I can take home memories of doing it with a ________, (today its a Martini, yesterday it was a T/C Contender, tomorrow who knows?), then all the better.

 

[Red Leg]

Sigh. My point was, if you are going to Africa for the first time, it is an expensive investment. And unless you are very wealthy, such an investment is indeed a major part of the hunt. On such a hunt, a drop of blood is the same cost as a cleanly taken animal. The .577-450 has a well earned reputation, in Africa, as a poor penetrator. It would be an interesting caliber to take feral hogs and whitetail at home where a lost recovery is something for your conscious to handle not an outfitter and PH. If you have all this figured out, then fine. You asked for my opinion, and my opinion is that I wouldn't make it the basis of a successful plains game hunt. Could it kill African game - of course it can - it was a go-to round for a long time. It just didn't do it very well.

 

[EDELWEISS]

Thanks

 

[ChrisG]

Jim Corbet remarks that he carried a .577-450 on more than one occasion while hunting the Champawat Man-Eater. He also had a double barreled .450 BPE he used. I believe the only thing he ended up killing, that I recall, on that venture were a series of goats at a range of about 200 yards or so. I believe he had it loaded with original military loads which were black powder and a paper patched 480 grain lead bullet. I personally wouldn't use it in Africa because, as has been stated, and African hunt is immensely expensive. To do so as a stunt to harken back to the "Golden Days" would be one thing but I wouldn't adopt it for that specific purpose. Now if, like another member on here @Gert Odendaal , you lived in Africa and had access to a game farm and wanted to participate in a 19th centry hunt where you wouldn't be losing trophy fees to an outfitter for every winged animal and also time to hunt at your leisure, then... by all means go for it! But as you are in Maryland, a .30-06 or 7x57 will fill that role much better and the Martini should be relegated to hunting stateside, which it would do just fine for pretty much everything but the big bears if you want stalk in close.

As to the howdah pistol... I can only imagine that the penetration is woefully shallow on all but the closest range shots. A round, .62" lead ball from a 10" barrel, even with a heavy charge of black is only going to be moving around 700fps. In my book, better than nothing, but a .44 magnum will out-power and out-penetrate it on the worst of days and downright put it to shame with the best loadings. The howdah was designed as a last ditch against a tiger when he was in the "howdah" with you on top of an elephant where range would be measured in inches rather than feet or yards. At that range, a lead ball to the noggin would probably make the cat re-think his decision making paradigm that brought him into the howdah in the first place. I am of the opinion that a .357 with 180 hardcasts would definitely be more effective against a bear than the 20 gauge howdah... Don't get me wrong. They are an awesome piece and would be super fun to shoot at the range, I just wouldn't be tempted to carry one for defense against any of those massive quadrapeds.

If you get anything with the Martini-Henry, Definitely post some pics!

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Like you , I have a soft spot for these old stalwarts ..especially the Martini Henry, .577-450, I am re-loading for the Martini Henry, when participating in the 1880 Era Black Powder hunt at Weltevreden Farm we keep shooting distances at 80 meters max...although I am quite sure an able person will kill game at 100-120 meters with he Martini Henry...since we hunt on foot alone, without guides we set 80 meters max as the distance to hunt.
The hunters with the Flint-lock rifles keep it at 30 to 50 meters...enjoy your Martini Henry rifles....

 

[EDELWEISS]

Thanks guys, I think I will use the Martini for medium game at close range; BUT before I do it I'll shoot it enough to be comfortable and know the gun and round. Afrika? Hmmm maybe. Of course I don't want to let a wounded animal get away, yeah part of it is $$$; but more/most of it is ethics. Hunting for me, heck Id bet all of us here, is about the hunt, not the kill. Yes we want the trophy; but the memories of all the stalks and all the time in all the blinds and all the planning, is the REAL pleasure of the hunt, and that's the REAL Trophy.