Full moon peep insert

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by Pheroze, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2017
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  2. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I suppose one could line it up (though not in low light), but placing a peep out on the barrel pretty much eliminates the whole instinctive alignment advantage of the near pupil peep or “ghost” ring. It is why the military places the peep near the pupil - quick, accurate, and instinctive target acquisition and alignment.
     
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  3. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Thanks. I was wondering if the front sight would just fill too much of the peep to make it effective too.
     

  4. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    You certainly wouldn’t be able to use a large, low-light front bead.
     
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  5. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

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    Back in the day I had a lot of experience shooting aperture sights with a front post on M1s, M14s & M16s. the rear apertures were within 1' (generally closer) to my eye. Looking through the aperture resulted in blocking out some light so the front post was put in the brightest spot (which was the center of the aperture), which resulted in precise sight alignment. Having the aperture placed on the barrel where the factory open sight is normally placed seems to me that the situation may not be the same as one closer to the eye. But then, considering that when shooting handguns, with open sights, both the rear and front sights are similar distances from the eye, I couldn't say without qualification that the untested idea of the midship aperture would be inaccurate.
     
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  6. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Shorter sight radius is never better for accuracy, and doubly so with a rear aperture for reasons stated above.

    Only mechanical limitations would get me to consider this arrangement.
     
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  7. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Dittos on all of the reservations mentioned above. If this sight were to be used on a very long barreled muzzle-loader it might have some application.
     

  8. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Thanks guys

    Traditional express sight it shall be!
     

  9. Longwalker

    Longwalker AH Fanatic

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    I prefer even the barrel mounted aperture to an open V sight. Perhaps it's just me, but I tend to shoot high on moving game when in a hurry and aiming with open v sights. No so with aperture sights. I had a sight similar to the "full moon" on a short barrelled lever action rifle. It was a "Marbles Bullseye" I actually did find it fast to use and precise enough for close in shooting, but my eyes are aging and I found it difficult to focus on the front sight through an aperture so far in front of my eye. I switched to a regular receiver sight and found I could see the front sight better for accurate shooting. No faster though. If you have better eyes than mine you may have no trouble using the full moon sight for close in Dangerous Game.
     
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  10. zephyr

    zephyr AH Enthusiast

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    I have shot both the full moon and half moon rear sights offered by NECG. While they work well I was not "wowed" by my shooting experience with them. I do have on three rifles their See -Thru sight which I like very much and as advertise you can see thru the sights giving you a better sight picture above and below the front bead. I run a green fiber optic front which for me stands out better than the red.

    [​IMG]
     

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  11. zephyr

    zephyr AH Enthusiast

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    The Full Moon Half Moon and See Thru Sights all use the same base so they are interchangeable sight height to be determined
    NEGC Universal Banded and Ramp Front Sight are adjustable so you have more wiggle room when sighting in your “Irons”
     

  12. ZG47

    ZG47 AH Enthusiast

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    @Pheroze I am certain that you could rough up a ghost ring peep on a barrel-mounted backsight to test the concept, using a washer and some putty.
     
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  13. Tam Dl

    Tam Dl AH Senior Member

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    Skinner sights has been selling barrel mounted peeps for a while, and XS has peeps for handguns.

    I can't really see what the accuracy compromise is with mounting a peep forward, vs an express sight. They both have reduced span over a receiver mounted sight. The difference to me is peeps work near, and Vs work far from the eye.

    Ghost rings have become very popular in the last 20 or so years. For me, they don't really function as peeps as the peep function is that the eye self centers because it naturally gravitates to the point where the greatest light transmission occurs. Since by definition the ghost ring is almost invisible, and certainly transmits light every which way, it really requires a different mode of use.

    Elmer Keith had a peep on his double rifle, at a time when that was odd, or maybe still is.

    After noticing that both Cowboy Action Shooting and PH work favour the express sight, it occurs that there is something specifically excellent about them. One stated reason in CAS is that it makes picking up the target faster than other sights, because it obscures the target the least. Peeps in chassis, often have a lot of stuff in the way of peripheral vision, that may not be ideal when it comes time to acquire the target. What is the reason express sights are used on DG guns? It seems that peeps are the preferred sights on bear guns that use iron sights, here in NA. But for close range work, it doesn't seem there should be a difference between what works best in NA and Africa.

    Peeps have been used on Allied battle rifles, while Axis rifles seemed to have barrel mounted open sights. But these weapons have to be able to fire on targets that are either near or at great distances, out to a 1000 yards. So there may not be that much to learn from them.
     
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  14. Tam Dl

    Tam Dl AH Senior Member

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    Can anyone explain why Express sights used for DG have their rear surfaces inclined away from the shooter. This would seem to open them up to glare, and is not always the choice for the leaves, where present. Is it to give the best chance in dark bush? Even if the glare affects shots under the sun?
     

  15. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

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    I wasn't there when they were designed but I'd guess that it's because if the high side was toward the shooter, it would need to be for the closest range, which would mean that the ones for further ranges would need to be built with additional height, so when flipped up would get the notch to the needed height for the bullets trajectory. the added height would make them more susceptible to breakage. a better option would be to have the base flat, then the additional range notches would only need to be the additional height to raise the muzzle. I suspect the reason to have the base incline away from the shooter would be to decrease the amount of height needed by the more fragile notches, with most of the height accomplished by the base.
     

  16. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    What is the average diameter of ghost ring.
    I’m putting one on my 404J making the sight myself.
    Shawn
     

  17. ZG47

    ZG47 AH Enthusiast

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    XS sights (successor to Ashley Outdoors) website might be a good place to look.
     

  18. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    XS site says they have two sizes .230 &.190 mine is .210 so I’m in the middle.
    Thanks
    Shawn
     

  19. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Shawn.54, have you ever thought of using a "tang" site on your 404? Many years ago I purchased a rifle second hand that had a tang sight on it. There was a removable insert in it, I removed the insert and after some range testing and a white tail hunt never put it back.
     

  20. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    2996ABFE-38B0-4D01-9384-BD08204828C4.jpeg 428501E4-6DAC-4D2D-818B-620FF9E35642.jpeg This is my prototype which my become the real part it is made of 7075-T6 aluminum and since I’m cerakoteing it no one would know. I have seen the sights that dove tail into cocking piece. This one goes on the back scope mount screws.

    Shawn
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2018
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