First time advice please

Discussion in 'Before & After the Hunt' started by CBH Australia, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. CBH Australia

    CBH Australia AH Enthusiast

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    So Im almost convinced its not that dear to hunt Africa. I understand international flights and associated expenses are at my cost. Often it is dearer to fly to a major centre from a small town in Australia than between major centers, Logical but the cost starts before you get far. I travel too much attending work and it comes as a cost.

    i have a dream but I might do a cull hunt in Africa.
    It would be my first international trip so i am looking forward to your input.

    Firstly Id travel 3000 km to Perth so I get the shorter international flights and I have a mate in WA

    Id prefer to take my own rifle and develop loads before i go but is it easier to just hire one and buy ammo? Ive got options and may change rifles by then. Id prefer to use my own but what is the cost with transport etc?? or Can i just buy ammo when we arrive (pre-ordered) are there good gunshops easily accessible.

    Do the cheaper outfitters still provide a nice experience

    i think i can read between the lines and work out which ones are all inclusive (most, for service) but some are plus VAT on the quoted price

    is there anything to be aware of? hidden costs ? I wont be shipping trophies etc so i want it to be straightforward

    It seems like the stay is all inclusive but then there is tipping.

    somewhere I heard it was common to leave the PH with excess ammo, my reloads? some cartridges can be expensive, cheap is $1 a round , heavy stuff maybe over $5 round.

    Does tipping extend through the country City motel etc or just at Lodge. There might be a night each end in town, do i tip at a restaraunt or the airport?

    What do people think I can reasonably expect to pay for a cull hunt? The meat etc goes to the locals. I know this is their livelihood but im paying for the experience and the stock/animals that i shoot.

    It seems south Africa is popular and easily accessible, any better suggestions?

    What species would other people plan to cull? As a hunter looking for a new experience? Like ive seen porcupine on a list, i didn't consider it being a hunted animal, maybe they eat it. I was probably thinking the cull animals are plains game, what I probably considered was the antelope type stuff, im not an expert on them obviously. Most of my hunting would be feral pigs but ive shot Fallow, goats, foxes and cats, rabbits etc. All introduced species

    Anything I missed or that you can add.
     

  2. Timbo

    Timbo AH Fanatic

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    G'day mate! Nice to know another Aussie is going to Africa!!

    In short, by your planning/questions, you seem to be aware of most of the issues. The biggest problem I find is tipping - because it's not done here in Oz. But I can forward to you an email sent to me by an agent that has a guide he uses when tipping SA outfitters and staff at the end of a hunt.

    As for reloads, DEFINITELY take your own!! I've done it both ways, and taking your own is by the far the cheaper, and more accurate way to go. (In Zim I was once quoted a box of 20 458WM at US$500.00!!).

    CHECK WITH YOUR AIRLINE, but:
    1) Ammo: Most airlines allow a combined total weight of 5kg of ammo. I pit my reloads into the cardboard ammo boxes with the polystyrene slide, and pack these into a lockable money tin ($40 from Bunnings) which is then put into your SUITCASE.

    2) Rifles: I have a double Pelican case which take my empty rifle(s) in their soft cases. I put my cleaning gear in my Pelican and also identify it on the paperwork - then there's no arguement in some remote African airport! I lock my case with 4 locks - using 2 sets of 2 different locks/keys. That way they're as secure as I can make them and I put the spare set of keys in the suitcase too.

    3) Added safety: To ensure against my rifles falling into the wrong hands if lost/stolen, I carry the bolts either in my cabin luggage OR in my suitcase. For every trip I've notified the airline (usually SAA) BEFOREHAND of this extra safety precaution and they've always been fine with it - but that may change - so CHECK WITH YOUR AIRLINE FIRST!! (Customs at Perth airport and I have discussed this issue, and they see it is a common sense precaution - who may later incorporate it into Policy.)

    4) Paperwork: Make sure you FIRST get issued with your ABN/CCID (which is ever after your unique identifier). Then use this to complete your "Restricted Goods Permit" (RPG) and your "Export Declaration" (Form B957). Once you lodge these 2 forms with Customs, they will process it (usually within 2wks) and then issue you with your "Export Declaration Advice". Make at least 3 copies of these 3 documents - keep one in your hand luggage, a spare set in your siutcase, and another at home for the duration of your hunt.

    Note: You can only lodge your RPG and B957 with Customs 30 days before departure.

    5) Game: As you want to do a cull hunt, it's best to ask your PH what's currently available. Discuss what's realistically available against how deep your pockets are. If it were me, I'd try for a nice cross section - maybe from zebra and kudu downwards - so as to maximise my time across a variety of different hunting experiences and environments.

    Depending upon what you intend hunting, I'd strongly recommend you take the calibre you're most used to and comfortable in shooting. Apart from accuracy with shot placement, your reloads will be ABSOLUTELY critical in your success or failure - so ensure you reload intelligently! Use a powder and bullet combination that's effective on your largest intended game, and at the ranges your PH estimates. For this too, make sure you use good quality projies - so DON'T cheap out on the one item that will either make or break your hunt!!

    For importing your firearm(s) into SA, you'll need to complete a SAPS520. This is a dozen pages long, and if ONE pen stroke is incorrect - your goose is cooked!! For this reason I'd suggest using an agent such as Henry at Riflepermits to organise import/export - and keep 3 copies of that document, like with your Oz docs, as well!! Henry's details are on this site.

    That's about it for the important stuff - firearm insurance? Forget it! No-one in Oz except the SSAA will insure you! Health/luggage insurance? - take your pick as there's more around than you can wave a stick at!!

    But whatever you do ENJOY the experience from planning stage to your return! I hope you have fun, and are happy infected - like the rest of us! - with this incurable disease called "Hunting Africa!" My thumb is now numb, but if you need any other info - I'll be happy to help!

    Cheers!
    Tim (y)
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  3. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    Good advice from Timbo that I’ll be brushing-up on for my own upcoming paperwork.

    I’ve flown via Perth twice and had to get a WA temporary visit permit to be on the safe side. It may be easier flying out of Sydney.
     

  4. CBH Australia

    CBH Australia AH Enthusiast

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    I do believe in quality projectiles for all hunting. That’s the cheap part. I don’t stress too much over the cost of ammo as I spend more on fuel to get out and hunt.
    Maybe I’d fly from Sydney as I’m in Western NSW and WA have their own rules.
    Flying from home to Sydney is costly,
    I found. I plan this right I’ll take long service and travel home the long way on my return
     
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  5. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Here’s some info from AH on tipping. I use a spreadsheet with all my expenses on it including the lowest and highest recommended tipping. I do a printout to take with me. If someone does a really good job for me such as Rowland Ward qualifying animals, or a tracker locating a wounded animal, or house keeper cleaning something overnight I need the next day, etc, I’ll tip higher.
    https://www.africahunting.com/threads/tipping-guide.183/

    Take a look here on AH under Safari Guide for lots of info.
    Best of luck on your Africa adventure! You’ll go back I’m sure!
     
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  6. Timbo

    Timbo AH Fanatic

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    Thanks! I'm going to use your one too!! (y)
     
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  7. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Timbo, not to hijack this thread, but we missed you on the Group Hunt last July. I see that you went with another outfitter later in the year and were quite successful in taking some DG animals. CBH Australia, Timbo's post was full of useful information. Do an AH search of Cull Hunts you will find lots if info there as well.
     

  8. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Can't help you on the Australia stuff. Your fellow countrymen have that well covered. The only advice I can give is unless you want to be afflicted with an incurable disease, don't go. :LOL:
     

  9. Timbo

    Timbo AH Fanatic

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    Yes I did. I couldn't go on the group hunt as I had to rush my Mother to hospital for emergency surgery on the day I was meant to leave. Pieter, however, kindly deferred my hunt - and I'm off in June for that.

    But in talking to a PH friend he unexpectedly told me that he was off to Zambia at short notice to recce the area - and to cut a long story short, offered if we could turn it into a hunt. Still miffed at missing the hunt with you guys, I thought: "Bugger it!! I'm going!!" I got a truly amazing deal (which worked out cheaper than anywhere else for the same number of animals taken) which I just couldn't refuse - so got up the cash asap and went. It was an amazing hunt as my recent posted pics show. I'll PM you all about it.
     
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  10. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    Do not take in your carry on bag any part of a firearm including the bolts ....just asking for trouble. ..and if they are confiscated at security you are stuffed. We had USA client few years ago leaving Lusaka and luckily I was on same flight to UK he was on. Going through security they found the two bolts from his custom built rifles.....he had shitfit when they told him as they were parts of firearms he couldn't have them in his hand luggage and were confiscating them.....I managed to phone my partner in the company and he came and picked them up from security later.....if I hadn't been by chance on that flight he would have lost the bolts and the way he was performing towards the security he might have ended up in trouble ........
     

  11. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    My advice appears to differ from the rest.

    It appears you're on a very tight budget from your desire to drive 3000km to save on flights from Australia to the desire to do a cull hunt, etc. I totally understand.

    So what you need to understand is that Africa is disorganized. The cure for disorganization is cash you do not have.

    Don't bring your rifle. If you have problems with your permits, you'll waste time and money trying to resolve it and you're new to international travel so you're going to be overwhelmed with logistical issues. Further, if your ammo doesn't show up you're going to spend a lot of money on ammo (if it can be found in Africa) and then you'll be shaken shooting ammo that isn't accurate in your gun.

    The cheap and easy way:

    Fly with nothing more than a carry on backpack. Show up with cash. Rent a gun and ammo from the outfitter. Do the cull hunt. Leave without any trophies... bingo, you have a trip that will be very easy on you financially, emotionally, and logistically.

    I travel 100,000 a year and I'd say I'm a fairly astute world traveler. I can assure you, anything that can go wrong, does go wrong with travel in Africa. Rifles and ammo multiply those problems exponentially. (e.g. you can't connect in certain countries, can't fly with certain carriers, your bags get lost, the guns get held mid-trip by airports, etc., etc.) With all my travel experiences and relying on locals to help, I've still had numerous gun/logistic issues due to airlines...and I study this stuff...a lot...a real lot.

    I'd imagine if you follow the sage advice of K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple-stupid) you could have a great cull hunt for a week to ten days, all-in, for $5000-$7000 including airfare if you leave the guns at home and you don't check a single bag.

    You lack the resources to unravel problems, so don't do things that hold high chances of creating problems, right?

    Have an awesome trip!
     
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  12. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    It appears Timbo caught them during a sale? The rate I heard for 416 Rigby in Zimbabwe this week was $61.00 PER CARTRIDGE, $1220.00 per box of 20.

    In a centrally managed economy or a supply-shortage market, prices are extraordinary and availability is scarce. This is why you better roll into country heavy on cash and use common calibers if you want to be able to resolve a scenario where you have no ammo.

    By renting a gun and ammo, you transfer that risk and obligation onto the very person that is charging you for the hunt. No ammo, no hunt, no payment, ALL THEIR PROBLEM.
     
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  13. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    You appear pretty twisted after your last experience... .. Most people have no problems travelling with firearms.... .and as the cull hunt will most likely take place in Sa I don't see much problem obtaining ammunition..... As I have said in another thread we can get most calibres here in zambia. .in fact I was in the Gunshop I use and there was 600 nitro....577 nitro. .450/400.....450 no2....500 nitro... 505 gibbs...500 Jeffery. .404 Jeffrey.... 416 Rigby. Remington.ruger......even 30/378 weatherby......425wr...318wr....500/465.....plus any amount of calibres ranging downwards in size......as I said just because you tried to do something "clever" in obtaining a cheaper hunt don't go giving so much negative crap about "Africa". In general . ....
     
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  14. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Three experiences, nearly 3 months in-country. Contrasted to experiences I've had traveling all over the world for decades. Resources and planning in most areas of the world can reduce/mitigate risk. In Africa, you never know what risks will manifest and throwing money at the problem can't fix every problem.

    Do I travel with firearms? Yes, I do. But do I recommend a fellow on modest budget take the chances knowing he may not have the capital to overcome the problems? No, I don't.
     
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  15. CBH Australia

    CBH Australia AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks Roohawk
    I must admit s esometimes get the impression that tipping authorities is necessary to get things done, get approvals or speed things up in some countries. Not just Africa.
    The moment you arrive with rifles people may get the impression that you are wealthy if you are there to hunt. But how wealthy.
    I’m new to all of this. For domestic travel I drive, I drive regularly for work too. So I rely on myself for everything, travelling abroad and even letting someone steer my holiday just doesn’t come naturally.
    With a mortgage and living expenses it’s not an annual holiday.
    Not complaining as it may be a reality for me now.
     
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  16. Mort Hill

    Mort Hill GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I think there is a lot of valuable info in this thread, as well as varying opinions like most topics. I think the bottom line take away is start the process early, plan well with good research, don’t become overwhelmed, and remember that a patient, friendly disposition is the best start to solve any problems arising. I have experienced delayed luggage and guns, multiple break downs, the start of a war, missed flights, and a myriad of other issues and distractions. I survived it all with fond memories. Africa operates at a pace all its own. Keeping that in mind will help you too to have a great time and will allow you to just enjoy whatever she throws at you. Cheers to a great adventure.
     
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  17. Timbo

    Timbo AH Fanatic

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    The price I was quoted for 458WM was in 2013. Now? God knows!! Moral of the story is to take reloads - its the cheaper and far more accurate way to go. (y)
     
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  18. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Timbo, agreed, but in some countries you cannot bring in ammo without a rifle in the corresponding caliber.
     
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  19. enysse

    enysse AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Plenty of outfitters offer cull hunts. Kemp Safari is one of them. They are good hunts and you will see plenty of trophy animals during the same hunt. Africa has a lot diverse game and country. Try to figure out what kind of animals and terrian you want to hunt in on your first trip.
     

  20. Newboomer

    Newboomer GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Try to keep your intermediate flight stops to a minimum. Transfers and layovers can cause real problems in some cases. Here in the US I have a nonstop from Nevada to New York and a nonstop to Joburg in SA. I have a meet and greet to get through customs and gun control. Then a domestic to wherever I'm going incountry. Work with a good travel agent who is familiar with Africa and get a meet and greet like Henry at Rifle Permits. He will get you through and to your outfitter or next flight.
     
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