Female Leopard Misstakenly taken

[Bruce]

Yes... it all stinks!!! As a hunter, the onus is always onus to determine sex, shootability etc... we cannot blame the PH in my mind. When I pull the trigger, I MUST be sure of my shot, the safe area behind the shot and what I am shooting at... I cannot shoot a Gemsbok and then claim I thought it was a kudu, for example!!
When I sat the blind for my leopard, we had to wait crucial minutes for the damn thing to present its crown jewels... we KNEW it was a male... just TOO large... BUT we HAD to make sure, EVEN if it meant losing the leopard before I got a shot in. When the jewels were eventually presented, my shot and the PH whisper..Take him.. were simultaneous!!
In Tanzania, no females at all may be hunted... EXCEPT for difficult to sex species, like crocodile and hyena. If you shoot a female of any species in Tanzania you and your PH are in deep shit!!
You may remember from a previous article I wrote about shooting the lion in our camp... well, we had aggro lionesses involved and I actually got the PH to radio the HQ in Daresalam to advise of the very dangerous situation that we had in the camp and that for self protection we MAY have to shoot one or more of these lionesses. We got the go ahead, making the situation more tenable... luckily we did not have to shoot any of the lionesses.

I really feel for your loss on this leopard hunt and agree that the outfitter / PH should be challenged to the fullest in this account!

 

[Roughneck80]

the game scout wasn't a government employee… i was told he worked for the land owner? i appreciate all the responses everyone… i kind of assumed what you said Phoenix Phil… either 1 or 2… I am not really interested in publicly shaming the outfitter…it was the same company i hunted with in RSA and Zim.. but in Zimbabwe they went other another name… and it is nothing to change company names and continue to operate in any manner they see fit…. i am just upset as with the leopard and nyala i am out over 10K with nothing to show for it and they dont seem to care at all…. kind of the same experience i had hunting in England… so it is just frustrating. I mean i know that when hunting not everything goes as you plan…. but it would have been nice to be informed of my options when this happened instead of after the fact.

 

[Roughneck80]

bruce… i am not to sure what you mean? how should the PH and Outfitter be challenged to the fullest over this account? you just wrote how it was all up to the person who pulled the trigger (the hunter) to sex the animals.

 

[Bruce]

bruce… i am not to sure what you mean? how should the PH and Outfitter be challenged to the fullest over this account? you just wrote how it was all up to the person who pulled the trigger (the hunter) to sex the animals.

This statement actually refers to the poor service in handling of his trophy... getting full payment yet delivering nothing and then refusing to sort out the damaged nyala skull and skin etc.
it does not refer to the actual act of shooting/ pulling the trigger... sorry for the non clarity here!

 

[Roughneck80]

Ah… i understand. Thanks Bruce

 

[Bruce]

Ah… i understand. Thanks Bruce

COOL... have a great Xmas and New Year....I have a sister in Victoria and a brother in Vancouver!!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

the game scout wasn't a government employee… i was told he worked for the land owner? i appreciate all the responses everyone… i kind of assumed what you said Phoenix Phil… either 1 or 2… I am not really interested in publicly shaming the outfitter…it was the same company i hunted with in RSA and Zim.. but in Zimbabwe they went other another name… and it is nothing to change company names and continue to operate in any manner they see fit…. i am just upset as with the leopard and nyala i am out over 10K with nothing to show for it and they dont seem to care at all…. kind of the same experience i had hunting in England… so it is just frustrating. I mean i know that when hunting not everything goes as you plan…. but it would have been nice to be informed of my options when this happened instead of after the fact.

Oy, this seems worse now. The game scout was not actually a gov't game scout but an employee of the landowner. My money is there was no report of the leopard kill nor any bribe paid. They took your money as though you had taken a male leopard and got rid of the carcass. Yes, they were correct in that there would've been big trouble had they tried to ship it to you as then it would have been revealed.

You say this was the same outfit you hunted with in RSA.....seems they crossed a repeat client. As far as options go, I'm not sure what the ramifications that you would have faced had they reported the kill. Perhaps none, but the PH at a minimum was facing trouble. Not only did he avoid facing that responsibility, he may have made money doing so.

Sorry this happened to you, I hope you won't let this deter you from returning to hunt Africa.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Yes... it all stinks!!! As a hunter, the onus is always onus to determine sex, shootability etc... we cannot blame the PH in my mind. When I pull the trigger, I MUST be sure of my shot, the safe area behind the shot and what I am shooting at... I cannot shoot a Gemsbok and then claim I thought it was a kudu, for example!! ..............

Bruce, I understand the personal responsibility angle, but we are legally required to follow the PH's direction when we are hunting.
We rely on the PH for everything from our safety to trophy judging.
Some hunters do not study animal identification and others would not have a clue what a trophy animal was if it bit them.
Firearms safety is not in the hands of the PH. That is all on the operator.

The "call" on the shot, if there is one, is on the PH. Watch videos of Leopard hunts from blinds and you will see the PH directing the shot.

We have to work as a team, but assuming the hunter is experienced enough to determine shootability when it is the first Leopard he may have ever seen is pretty tenuous.

After taking the Lion Aging Tests and coming out educated but 20% short of perfect, I can say that I am not about to call the shot in Tanzania on a Lion any time soon.

I made a call on a Black Wildebeest this year. It was not mature enough.
It was not on the PH, I screwed up. However, I should know better.
I'll live and learn.

 

[CAustin]

In my limited experience, in Zimbabwe your PH is going to have to take photos of the sex organs on a leopard. Those photos have to be submitted with the paperwork.

It sounds like the outfitter took advantage of the situation. Not sure if there is any recourse for you other than shaming them. Not sure if that is something you want to do. It might help protect your fellow hunters out here.

I think Wheels is right. Sounds to me like you got cheated and shaming the outfitter would help others not to get the same treatment! When outfitters pull something like this and they don't make it right....$$$$$, then they should pay with negative public exposure!
There have been recent reports here of an outfitter not doing the right thing by a hunter and AH member and people on this site made it very evident that he should have fixed the issue.

 

[Savage Hunter]

not that I will ever hunt a leopard, but it'd be nice for the people who desire to hunt them to know who not to book with.
Also, if he is dishonest/unethical in one arena, he isn't trustworthy in any arena.

 

[JimP]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree, if you put the name of the outfitter and PH out there you may just save another hunter the grief that you are going through.

 

[ThomasBeaham]

All trophy prep is done… paperwork filled out… i made a statement… go back home.

You made a statement to who?

 

[ThomasBeaham]

I pay for everything… big 5 safari…

Were there any export/import issues with your Lion, Rhinoceros, Elephant, or Buffalo trophies?

 

[johnnyblues]

Like to know who this was so others can avoid doing business with them.

 

[ndumo HUNTING SAFARIS]

roughneck, it is illigal to shoot a female leopard in Zim, no matter if its on state or private land. The PH could actually lose his licence (the local one), thats why I suspect it was just covered up... In the case of leopard especially, it is part of the Ph's rsponsibility to make sure of the sex before the hunter is told to shoot...

 

[enysse]

The female leopard was never going to be exported, the PH should have checked the sex before the shot was made and payment just lined the outfitters pocket. He sure as hell didn't mention his client shot a female to anyone.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.................... In the case of leopard especially, it is part of the Ph's responsibility to make sure of the sex before the hunter is told to shoot...

What Karl said!

 

[MARTIN PIETERS SAFARIS]

Only male leopard can be hunted in Zimbabwe.
If a female is shot in error then it is up to the PH to

1. Immediately inform the appropriate authority (in this case the land owner )
2. The PH will write a letter to the department of national parks outlining the details of the hunt.
3. The leopard WILL come off the land owners quota
4. A fine will be levied by the department of national parks and currently stands at $ 20 000 and the skin handed in.
5. It is at the discretion of the department whether or not the female leopard can be exported, generally not.

There are no other options.
Cheers

 

[K-man]

Only male leopard can be hunted in Zimbabwe.
If a female is shot in error then it is up to the PH to

1. Immediately inform the appropriate authority (in this case the land owner )
2. The PH will write a letter to the department of national parks outlining the details of the hunt.
3. The leopard WILL come off the land owners quota
4. A fine will be levied by the department of national parks and currently stands at $ 20 000 and the skin handed in.
5. It is at the discretion of the department whether or not the female leopard can be exported, generally not.

There are no other options.
Cheers

I wonder if this scenario is where the term "shoot and shovel" started.???? The P.H. s that I know from Zim would never allow a shot unless they were positive.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Only male leopard can be hunted in Zimbabwe.
If a female is shot in error then it is up to the PH to

1. Immediately inform the appropriate authority (in this case the land owner )
2. The PH will write a letter to the department of national parks outlining the details of the hunt.
3. The leopard WILL come off the land owners quota
4. A fine will be levied by the department of national parks and currently stands at $ 20 000 and the skin handed in.
5. It is at the discretion of the department whether or not the female leopard can be exported, generally not.

There are no other options.
Cheers

Martin, I appreciate you jumping in and comment on the after the fact process.

Would you also agree that:
It is up to the PH to call the shot;
continue and conduct a proper hunt for the licensed game;