Federal Premium Safari Cape-Shok .458 Lott vs .458 Win Mag Ammo Question

WisconsinKen

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Hello fellow forum members. I am hoping someone out there has some insight into the Federal Premium Safari Cape-Shok ammo. I was looking for a big brother to my .375 H&H and was thinking I’d end up with a .458 Lott. In anticipation of that, I picked up 40 rounds of the 500gr Woodleigh Hydro solids and 20 of the 500gr Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solids. I got a great deal on the 60 rounds.
Well, as luck would have it, I stumbled on a great deal on a .458 Win Mag so I have 60 rounds of ammo I probably will not use. I noticed that Federal has the exact same bullets in .458 Win Mag.
Sooooooooooo, my question is, does anyone know if Federal uses the same powder mix in the Lott and the Win Mag? If so, I may just pull the bullets, buy a box of the Win Mag to pull a couple and see the charge weight and just reload the 60 bullets with the Federal powder as Win Mag. I will end up with 60 rounds of primed nickel Lott brass which someone may want to trade for.
However, if Federal uses a different mix of powder between the 2 rounds, this has STUPID IDEA written all over it.
Anyone know?
 

SRvet

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Why not have a smith run a Lott chamber reamer into the 458 Win Mag and solve the problem entirely??
 

Nhoro

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What action is your win mag on ? My personal experience with CZ 550 is that the angles in the action are a bit tight for the win mag's shorter case. Lott feeds more reliably because the round feeds at a shallower angle. Some shorter actions might be opposite.

Also, how do you feel about recoil ? Go shoot 10 rounds of win mag at the range and see how you feel. Lott has more recoil and I can tell you that dealing with recoil is one of the main things you have to deal with to shoot a big bore acurately. Personally, I reload Lott ammo at lower than factory (500 gr at 2150 fps). Win mag can get that with factory and reloads. I went for the Lott because my gun loads longer rounds reliably.
 

WisconsinKen

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What action is your win mag on ? My personal experience with CZ 550 is that the angles in the action are a bit tight for the win mag's shorter case. Lott feeds more reliably because the round feeds at a shallower angle. Some shorter actions might be opposite.

Also, how do you feel about recoil ? Go shoot 10 rounds of win mag at the range and see how you feel. Lott has more recoil and I can tell you that dealing with recoil is one of the main things you have to deal with to shoot a big bore acurately. Personally, I reload Lott ammo at lower than factory (500 gr at 2150 fps). Win mag can get that with factory and reloads. I went for the Lott because my gun loads longer rounds reliably.
It is a Winchester M70.
After shooting the Win Mag, I am not sure my shoulder will handle a Lott. So I think the reaming out to the Lott is not in my future. Also, I have heard the M70 action will not handle the Lott length.
 

CoElkHunter

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It is a Winchester M70.
After shooting the Win Mag, I am not sure my shoulder will handle a Lott. So I think the reaming out to the Lott is not in my future. Also, I have heard the M70 action will not handle the Lott length.
Yeah, I don’t know about the recoil with the Lott in the M70? My CZ Lott isn’t much more than my CZ WM, but I believe the Winchester is a lighter rifle? One of the M70 experts here would know.
 

fourfive8

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The "working" max OAL (cartridge length) for both the 375 HH and 458 Lott is 3.60". There is no practical difference between a 375 HH and a Lott other than cartridge profile. A Win 70 standard long action will handle the 3.6" length. But there is no margin to accommodate a cartridge longer than 3.6" as in some reloading opportunities for heavy (long) mono bullets that are seated out thus resulting in a cartridge OAL longer than 3.6". The difference among all the standard long action Win 70s is... the length the ejector and bolt stop are cut for and the magazine box (whether or not the box has a spacer installed) and follower lengths. These are all very straight forward mods after the fact or they are already done at the factory if originally a 375 HH.
 

fourfive8

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Yep, not worth messing with re-using such pulled powder! Who knows what it may be?? But absolutely no problem pulling and using the bullets. The other possibility is finding someone to trade the Lott factory ammo for some Win factory ammo. Both of those Lott ammo/bullet types are very good and ready to go for DG hunting for anyone who doesn't reload.
 

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1. I think that the odds are good that the powders are different. You could probably deconstruct both a Lott and a WM to get get their charge weights and then fill another empty WM case with the powder from the Lott using the WM charge weight and then compare velocities and POI. But there is uncertainty and maybe some risk in doing that.
2. I suspect that Federal uses their own proprietary powders.
3. In my mind the better way to go is get a .458 Lott. That way you can shoot either without worry.
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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This seems like a bad idea. I don't think you'll ever get the question regarding powder answered from a reliable source, i.e. Federal. Even if the same powder, I see a lot of trouble and risk for very little upside.

Find someone interested in the Lott rounds and sell them to get back what you can. This is the safest route.
 

WisconsinKen

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This is a stupid idea because you're going to disassemble perfectly good live rounds without sufficient reasonable purpose. Trade the live rounds away unscrewed with or find a gun to shoot them in gets my vote.

Ok, ok. I’ll put all of them up and see if someone wants to trade for Win Mag.

If someone offers me less that I can buy those particular bullets for (like the Sledgehamers which are pricy to say the least) I may still pull them, forget the powder and just reload them as Win Mags.

Thank you all for being the voice of reason and stopping me from doing something dumb ;)
 

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The .458 (shortened 375 case) Win Mag (in Africa) is "Big Brother" to the (magnum length) .375 HH in caliber-only. ;) I'd far rather use the .375 w/ 350 gr bullets on DG (higher V, E, and much better SD bullet penetration.) I like .416 all the more, for the same reasons, but you mention the 375 and 458.
 

Professor Mawla

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Federal’s 500 grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid factory loads for the .458 Winchester Magnum originally used to be my favorite factory load for contending with rogue Asiatic jungle elephants . As a matter of fact , I actually recommended this factory load in the first edition of my book when I first had it published in 1994 . Back in those day , these rounds were loaded to achieve a velocity of 2150 feet per second .

However , Federal has significantly reduced the powder charge in their 500 grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid factory loads for the .458 Winchester Magnum in recent years . Currently , the advertised velocity is only 1950 feet per second . This is too low for a dangerous game calibre . The quality of Federal’s Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid bullets has also greatly deteriorated , ever since Jack Carter ( the original inventor of Trophy Bonded Bullets ) ceased to be involved with the company .
 

Daga Boy

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Hello fellow forum members. I am hoping someone out there has some insight into the Federal Premium Safari Cape-Shok ammo. I was looking for a big brother to my .375 H&H and was thinking I’d end up with a .458 Lott. In anticipation of that, I picked up 40 rounds of the 500gr Woodleigh Hydro solids and 20 of the 500gr Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solids. I got a great deal on the 60 rounds.
Well, as luck would have it, I stumbled on a great deal on a .458 Win Mag so I have 60 rounds of ammo I probably will not use. I noticed that Federal has the exact same bullets in .458 Win Mag.
Sooooooooooo, my question is, does anyone know if Federal uses the same powder mix in the Lott and the Win Mag? If so, I may just pull the bullets, buy a box of the Win Mag to pull a couple and see the charge weight and just reload the 60 bullets with the Federal powder as Win Mag. I will end up with 60 rounds of primed nickel Lott brass which someone may want to trade for.
However, if Federal uses a different mix of powder between the 2 rounds, this has STUPID IDEA written all over it.
Anyone know?
The Lott will almost certainly be loaded with a slightly slower powder.
 

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