English v German/Austrian gunmakers

[Red Leg]

Another place to window shop is Hartmann & Weiss. https://www.hartmannandweiss.com/en/homepage.html Their incredible array of rifles and guns are classics and are every bit the quality (and price) of anything produced by Holland &Holland, Purdey, or Rigby. Just extraordinary creations.

 

[Rimbaud]

Another place to window shop is Hartmann & Weiss. https://www.hartmannandweiss.com/en/homepage.html Their incredible array of rifles and guns are classics and are every bit the quality (and price) of anything produced by Holland &Holland, Purdey, or Rigby. Just extraordinary creations.

Depending on the state of the Wuhan virus, I will be in Zimbabwe in June 2021 for Cape buffalo, and also back to Namibia for some post-hunt plains game shooting. I shoot each year in England, and in 2022 I am eager to extend the trip to follow the roe rut around Europe, and have a rifle made, provided I can twist my office calendar to my favor. A fine madness is a great way to describe this. My wife just shakes her head and smiles at all of this, but my son intuitively understands.

 

[Nevada Mike]

A stimulating discussion. I like to think that I appreciate any fine weaponry from whatever maker produces it. If you are comparing or contrasting British gun and rifle makers with European gun and rifle makers you must include ALL of Europe. The Eastern Europeans, Italians and Spanish have a long history of fine gun making and, although the Spanish (Basque) makers are having a difficult time right now, the Italians are still innovating and building fine guns, both traditional British designs and many fine designs that originated in Italy. Certainly, some very fine shotguns are made in Italy. both O/U and SxS.

Hartmann & Weiss in Hamburg makes guns and rifles as fine as any made ANYWHERE. The principles worked in England and have now 'one-upped' the English makers. Some people criticize German guns as 'cuckoo clocks' but Austrian gun makers like Johann Springer made many fine guns in the English style. And Harold Lindner (Suhl Germany) made top end shotguns for the American market retailed under the Charles Daly name - when the name meant something.

Right now I am having a .404 Jeffery Mauser rifle built by a Swiss-trained gun-maker, Reto Buehler, of Medford, Oregon. He makes some of the finest rifles being built today. He builds single shots - both break open and falling block - in the Austrian tradition and in the English style and excels in 'classical' English style Mauser rifles, especially safari rifles.

I own and shoot fine guns and rifles built in the USA, England, Scotland, Italy, Germany, and Belgium. No one country can claim exclusivity in fine gun-making any longer.

 

[Hank2211]

@Red Leg's post was excellent. To just extend that form follows function exercise a bit, you can see in the design of English shotguns that they were made to be an "extension" of the shooter's arms - to easily enable shooters to "point and shoot." That form was then ported into the design of rifles, particularly but not exclusively doubles. It undoubtedly helped that for much of the late 19th and 2oth centuries many of these guns were made to order, and therefore customized to the shooter.

It is interesting to examine the work of Ralf Martini, a German gunmaker who has lived in Canada for many years. He learned his trade in Europe and I understand was making guns in the continental style. Early in his career though, he decided that he much preferred the English style of stock, finding it more practical as well as more elegant. Since then, he has made his stocks in that style. There are threads here on AH dealing with the Heym Express by Martini, which Ralf designed for Heym when they approached him to help them understand why their express rifle wasn't selling. His "English" design for them has greatly improved the sales of that rifle, although the actual action of the guns are resolutely European. We continue to see that continental rifle makers are appreciated in England more for their actions than for their stock and overall rifle designs (as in Rigby's rifles, for example).

This is not to suggest that one country makes better guns and rifles than another, and in fact, many continental gun and rifle makers today will make guns in the English style - which is more or less the same as the North American - if only because that market is the biggest. It's one of the great things about firearm design. While gunmakers have gravitated over the years towards similar action designs (with some obvious exceptions such as certain of the Blaser rifles which remain interesting examples of German engineering) - gunmakers continue to make guns and rifles in many varying styles and appearance. This is great, of course, since buyers can generally get the style which works best for them or which they prefer aesthetically. In other words, I love a German action in my Rigby, but I'm grateful for the English design and balance. It just works for me.

 

[ZG47]

@Red Leg Thanks for the info. I have a signed copy of Vintage Guns for the Modern Shot by Diggory Hadoke, published by Merlin Unwin Books. It is an excellent primer on shotguns and break-action guns in general. I learn something new every time I read it (or simply come to understand what I did not clearly grasp on first, second or third reading ).

I also have Double-barreled Rifles: Fascination in Wood and Steel by Norbert Klups, published by Schiffer Military History. Klups addresses the question of how to productively fit telescopic sights to O/U and S/S double-barreled rifles, in conjunction with historical background and details of various breech mechanisms, cartridge development, etc.

Both books contain excellent technical images and accompanying descriptions so ... if it seems a bit daunting at first, you will eventually come to grips with what is being presented.

 

[Pondoro]

I have handeled a couple of Mauser bolt rifles and a takedown single shot (Hagn system) with two barrels all made by Hartmann & Weiss. I must say that those two bolts are the finest and most tasteful bolt rifles I have ever seen… Those two belong to a friend..he ordered the last one himself in .300Win.Mag. and the firm was a delight to do business with...very personal customer service..