Endura and VV N165 powder discussion


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Sep 24, 2017
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The only cartridges I am actively reloading at this time (and for quite some time) are 7x57/275 Rigby, 7x57R, 30-06 and 416 Rigby. I am in the process of loading up all my components before I purchase more reloading supplies.

I have a few powders that I have used very little. These are VV N165, and the Hodgdon Endura powders IMR 4451, IMR 4166 and IMR 4955. Looking through my reloading notes, every load I have tried using those powders has the same comment: $hit load. Loads I have using the IMR equivalent to the Endura powders are much more accurate and consistent. And the N165, I read it is THE powder for 450/400, 416 Rigby and for heavy bullets in 30-06 and 7x57. My results have been different.

Has anyone used these Endura powders and prefer them to their IMR equivalents? Any success with the N165?

Safe shooting
I used 4451 with pretty good results when H4350 was unobtainable. But only for 6.5 Creedmore. I prefer H4350 for 30-06 and currently RL-17 for 243, 6.5 CM, & 9.3x62.

I sold the remaining 4451 to a PRS shooter that loved it after I was able to source my standard powders.
My 7x57 seems pretty fussy when it comes to powders.
The 145 gn LRX is great with StaBall 6.5.
150 Nosler Ballistic Tips were god with 4451 and Reloder 26. Not so great with StaBall 6.5.
I used Hodgdon 7-08 data and worked up to the listed velocity,. Since the two cartridges have virtually identical capacity, they will produce the same pressure at the same velocity. Since 7x57s vary greatly in throat dimensions individual rifles will also vary in velocity. Use a chronograph, don't don't exceed 7-08 velocity from pressure tested data and you will be OK.

4451 is good in the 30-06 and makes a fine substitute for the 4350s
@wswolf Thank you.

I load very similar for the 7x57. I use 7mm-08 data as a guideline, and I have always used a chrony when developing loads. In my experience, the chrony will tell me the load is approaching its limit before the case will.

Using Re22, Re19, IMR 4350, IMR 4831 and H414 (aka W760), in 7x57 and 30-06, every load I try is somewhere between good enough and great. Currently all my loaded ammo uses one of those powders. These have been my go-to powders for a long time.

With the Endura powders, I have not had that success. A friend of mine wrote for several gun mags and I did a lot of the shooting and research for him. He would often give me powder and primers, and that is how I ended up with the Endura powders. I wasn't impressed by those powders then and now that I am trying them again, I still remain unimpressed. I cannot get the accuracy out of 4451 that I can get with 4350 and I cannot get the accuracy out of 4955 that I get with 4831. 4166 is supposed to be similar to Varget and 4064. I do not get similar results with it either.

I want to use these powders, so I am giving it a go, again.

Any 4451 loads you would care to share?

Safe shooting
I didn't do a lot of experimenting with 4451 in the 30-06 because accuracy was not outstanding.
Custom Springfield - 22" Douglas barrel.
190 Nosler Accubond Long Range - 54gn - 120 primer - WW cases - 2451 fps and
200 Nosler partition - 53gn - 210 primer - LC76 cases - 2520 fps
gave reasonably good groups.

7x57 - 150 Nosler BT - 49gn - 4451 - 210 primer - Hdy cases - 2750 fps groups under an inch.
Model 70 - 22" barrel.

4451 worked well in the ,358 Norma and showed potential n the .220 Swift.


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